109 elevator trim

[Varrattu]

For a DIYS-Flap-setting-indicator on Bf109 please have look:

http://forum.sturmovik.de/index.php/topic,835.0.html

Translation:

http://translate.google.de/translate...c%2C835.0.html

Happy landings

Varrattu

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Sven

There you go, it was used frequently according to this fighter pilot!

True, as it should be to ease and neutralize forces on the stick (which we don't really have on our plastic joysticks). Reading a bit more about Finnish pilots, while you mention it, elevator trim was extremely important - remember the story of this pilot who got himself almost killed because he forgot to trim his plane correctly (G-2) before entering the dive. The response was nowhere as fast and this should be modelled in the sim. Same for Spitfires / Hurricanes, of course...

[335th_GRAthos]

Originally Posted by Osprey

My questions are about how elevator trim is used in game compared to real life.

1. How is it operated in a real 109?
2. Was it possible to apply it in combat, easily or normally?
3. What effect did this have?

Sorry to turn the table around Osprey but I am getting curious to understand the difference between a Bf109 Elevator trim vs. a Spitfire Elevator trim

ehem, sorry I forgot. I rephrase:
the difference between a Bf109 Elevator trim vs. a Huricane Elevator trim

WTF?
You really believe that you are getting your precious part kicked just because somebody is using the elevator trim to gain an advantage over you!?

C'mon man, you must be a terrible noob (which I know you are not) to lose a fight because of this!

I will tell you what the difference is:
Elevator trim has a very smooth axis progressive movement which most cheap joystics do not!

So, if one has a "cheap" joystick ("cheap" means inferior construction materials NOT buying price) and it has "spikes", elevator movements are going to be crap and he is bound to fly lousy and bleed all energy while doing corrections.

Likewise, if one has a good joystick but have done the trimming incorrectly and does not fly with smooth subtle movements his elevator movements are going to be crap and he is bound to fly lousy and bleed all energy while doing corrections.

For this reason a "lot of people" (actually very few people, mostly people from Russia who understand about things and are not preparedto pay the 200-400USD ridiculous prices of good joysticks sold in the Western market) mod their joysticks themselves and fix the technical part this way.

Other people with less understanding (e.g. myself) just keep using their MS Sidewinder2 FFB joystics (and bin the Warthogs...)

Summarizing:
If one's joystick axis pots are crap,
if one does not know how to setup the axis movement in the game,
if one does not know how to handle the joystick in order to ensure a nice smooth flying
then he better use the elevator trim....

...or just learn to fly


~S~

[Robo.]

I believe the issue is the speed of response of the trim control, especially on the 109. The RAF fighters have got the same problem in the sim, but the elevator trim was much easier to operate in real life.

It was indeed possible to operate the Emils trim wheel in combat and many pilots did it, obviously, it was normal part of flying and fighting, but:

The point is that the wheel in the sim is nothing like the real thing. The design of the 2 wheels stuck together was to turn them both in order to compensate for the nose-down tendency of the aircraft with the landing flaps being deployed. (This is also a bug in the sim as with 'octopus effect' switched on, you can't operate one while the other is being used). Pilot was turning both wheels with his left hand simultanously.

With elevator trim assigned to an joystick axis, you will be able to get full effect of the trim within split of a second whereby it took much longer in real life and the response was nowhere as swift. Give it a shot, you'll see. With this 'exploit', the 109 is way too manoeverable and you're actually winning turnfights with Hurricanes and you'll be able to hit Spitfires breaking hard while diving on them full speed. I fly all planes in game and I find this a severe issue, just like these nose ups with flaps down and other sci-fi physics.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I believe the issue is the speed of response of the trim control, especially on the 109. The RAF fighters have got the same problem in the sim, but the elevator trim was much easier to operate in real life.

It was indeed possible to operate the Emils trim wheel in combat and many pilots did it, obviously, it was normal part of flying and fighting, but:

The point is that the wheel in the sim is nothing like the real thing. The design of the 2 wheels stuck together was to turn them both in order to compensate for the nose-down tendency of the aircraft with the landing flaps being deployed. (This is also a bug in the sim as with 'octopus effect' switched on, you can't operate one while the other is being used). Pilot was turning both wheels with his left hand simultanously.

With elevator trim assigned to an joystick axis, you will be able to get full effect of the trim within split of a second whereby it took much longer in real life and the response was nowhere as swift. Give it a shot, you'll see. With this 'exploit', the 109 is way too manoeverable and you're actually winning turnfights with Hurricanes and you'll be able to hit Spitfires breaking hard while diving on them full speed. I fly all planes in game and I find this a severe issue, just like these nose ups with flaps down and other sci-fi physics.

If in fact there was 5 revolutions for full travel, then the pilot was only limited to his turning speed of the wheel...about 2-3 seconds for full travel I estimate. Not that any pilot would adjust to full travel, and so time decreases depending on revolutions turned, because of the mechanical nature, and so any turning would provide some type of immediate results..

[Al Schlageter]

It would take longer than that as he could only move the wheel maybe a 1/4 > 1/3 turn for each grab of the wheel. That would be 20+ grabs.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

It would take longer than that as he could only move the wheel maybe a 1/4 > 1/3 turn for each grab of the wheel. That would be 20+ grabs.

I just can't imagine a pilot adjusting more than a very few degrees at a time

[Flanker35M]

S!

Al Schlageter, and with what you do you back up this that the trim wheel could be moved only a small amount at time? Been in a Bf109 to test it? I have been and can say you can move it quite easily more than 1/3-1/4 at a time

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

It would take longer than that as he could only move the wheel maybe a 1/4 > 1/3 turn for each grab of the wheel. That would be 20+ grabs.

If you watch the animation, full travel is about only 3/4 of one revolution. ..and so thats what we have, very quick deployment for full range. Is it accurate? we would need someone with experience of turning the wheel, or perhaps an operations manual.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

If in fact there was 5 revolutions for full travel, then the pilot was only limited to his turning speed of the wheel...about 2-3 seconds for full travel I estimate. Not that any pilot would adjust to full travel, and so time decreases depending on revolutions turned.

Ok, so you're saying it is ok as it is now?

I'd like to see how you spin that wheel 5 turns in 2-3 seconds.