Frankly, these lasers...

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by choctaw111

This is the first I have asked this question and I may as well ask it here.
For those complaining about the "Star Wars Laser" look, ask yourself this.
Having never seen tracers in person, do you want them to look like what you think they should look like, or do you want them to look as they would appear in reality.
I am telling you all that the tracers I have seen in Cliffs of Dover are the most realistic I have seen in a game.

Totally agreed. I've seen everything from 5.56mm to 25mm tracers from my time in the military, and IMO 1C got this one right.

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by ChrisDNT

Obviously, many here have only seen tracers on pictures or videos.

Basically, when you fire something with a tracer, you just see the shining ass of the bullet, some kind of a moving point, but again no "Star Wars" lasers.

Originally Posted by choctaw111

This is the first I have asked this question and I may as well ask it here.
For those complaining about the "Star Wars Laser" look, ask yourself this.
Having never seen tracers in person, do you want them to look like what you think they should look like, or do you want them to look as they would appear in reality.
I am telling you all that the tracers I have seen in Cliffs of Dover are the most realistic I have seen in a game.

Agreed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-7geGhY0jY

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Agreed.

Based on this video and many others I've seen...

Tracers don't follow a straight line, because the shooting aircraft never has complete fixed control. Flying aircraft are always bouncing and smoke trails definitely erratically accompany the tracers. It doesn't seem to matter what your vantage point is either.

So, if we get the full real tracers described we should also have erratic tracers and smoke trails.

Big straight bolts of light don't fit the picture of any full real viewing I've ever seen from any gun cam, or other outside views.

I recall first time I saw gun cam I thought to myself, what good are the tracers.

The tracers appear to be more efficient for targeting from a fixed platform like ground of ship mounted guns.

Regardless, we'll either work with them or raise so much stink we get what we think we should have. LOL

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

Based on this video and many others I've seen...

Tracers don't follow a straight line, because the shooting aircraft never has complete fixed control. Flying aircraft are always bouncing and smoke trails definitely erratically accompany the tracers. It doesn't seem to matter what your vantage point is either.

So, if we get the full real tracers described we should also have erratic tracers and smoke trails.

Big straight bolts of light don't fit the picture of any full real viewing I've ever seen from any gun cam, or other outside views.

I recall first time I saw gun cam I thought to myself, what good are the tracers.

The tracers appear to be more efficient for targeting from a fixed platform like ground of ship mounted guns.

Regardless, we'll either work with them or raise so much stink we get what we think we should have. LOL

The erratic trails are because the camera is being violently shaken every time you shoot the gun. From what I am given the understand ( and have noticed in other contexts) people have exceptionally good built-in picture stabilization. Unless you're in a sensory illusion, you're going to perceive the final image as though it were shot from a stationary camera oriented with gravity down. Likewise, if you're caught in a sensory illusion, the final image is going to be stabilized to whatever you *think* is fixed down.

You can try this out for yourself by finding a reasonably open area, and spinning around a few dozen turns, the opening your eyes. Note how the world will still be spinning, even if you're flat on your back? That's a sensory illusion, and having your visual frame of reference disrupted is one of the effects of it.

This is, coincidentally, one of the big reasons blind flying is so dangerous for untrained pilots. It takes less than a minute for your internal sense of up and down to get scrambled to the point that what you think is up, happens to really be an inverted spiral dive into the ground.

[choctaw111]

Originally Posted by ChrisDNT

Obviously, many here have only seen tracers on pictures or videos.

Basically, when you fire something with a tracer, you just see the shining ass of the bullet, some kind of a moving point, but again no "Star Wars" lasers.

You are right about the shining ass of a bullet but they very much do look like Star Wars.
Take a laser pointer and shine it at a wall.
You see a point of light but move it around quickly and it becomes a streak. The human eye can no longer see it as a point of light when it moves around at speed.

[winny]

Originally Posted by ChrisDNT

Obviously, many here have only seen tracers on pictures or videos.

Basically, when you fire something with a tracer, you just see the shining ass of the bullet, some kind of a moving point, but again no "Star Wars" lasers.

This is true only if you're looking down the sight of the gun that fired it.

If you're off to the side and slightly above (in the cockpit for example) then you'll see some degree of streaking.

I do think that the tracers are too fat though. I think I remember Oleg saying that they had to compromise them slightly in order to make them work though.

[Blackdog_kt]

I won't bore you all to tears with the exact details once again (i explained everything in a very recent thread here, post #26: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...087#post231087 ) but from my personal experience the summary is:

1) Tracers look like streaks when close to you because the closer distance exaggerates the effect of the angular offset between aimer's viewpoint and line of travel. Angle offset at close range translates to a lot of lateral displacement/apparent size during their motion, the eye/brain can't keep up and they seem to streak.

2) As they move out the same angle offset translates to less lateral displacement over longer ranges, so they change over from streaks to dots.

3) You can see this modeled perfectly in Oleg's fighting sequence video of last week's update during the attack on the Defiant, just pause frame by frame between 0:35 and 0:37 and you can't miss it. Or click on the link provided above, there's a relevant screenshot.

4) Possible improvements? Not many to be honest.
They look a bit too uniform overall and a little "fat" when they are close to the player's viewpoint (personally, my only criticisms), but very similar to real ones after just a second or less of travel.
I can't decide on how "fat" they should be since it depends on ambient light conditions. I would like to see ricochets modeled at some point. Otherwise they look spot on to me.

Finally, in-game camera shutter speed will be adjustable so if anyone wants cinematic tracers and propellers they'll be able to adjust it to their preference.

Overall conclusion: Almost everyone will be happy with what they see eventually.

I hope it helps

[GOA_Potenz]

i saw tracers with my bared eyes and yes it looks like in game, what you see in guncams is due to shaking camera and poor light caught

[ChrisDNT]

This is true only if you're looking down the sight of the gun that fired it.

If you're off to the side and slightly above (in the cockpit for example) then you'll see some degree of streaking.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I was AA gunner on the Oerlikon54, basically an improved WWII design cannon.

I fired the cannon from the gunner seat and I saw the cannons firing away from the battery.

I never saw even a single time any "lasers".

The most realistic thing about tracers I evers saw in a sim is the latest mod for gunnery available for IL2 (I can't remember its name).

[JG52Uther]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6rE32Js6Go