Tactics for Cliffs of Dover.

[Matt255]

"The RAE determined in Report No. B.A.1640 that "The minimum radius of turn without height loss at 12,000 ft., full throttle, is calculated as 885 ft. on the Me 109 compared with 696 ft. on the Spitfire."

Those are calculations with wingloading only, which would only make sense, if both planes would use the same airfoil (and if the 109 would have washout or the Spitfire wouldn't have washout). Those numbers mean nothing.

But whatever, most sources (both german and british) say, that the Spitfire turned better then 109 E. However, that's pretty much the only real advantage the Spitfire has. Both have about the same speed and climb, the outcome depends on energy and how long the pilot can use maximum power before overheating.

The 109 can climb steeper (not faster), can roll faster at low to medium speed, can dive faster, has the better armament (imo), the better forward view (makes deflection shooting easier, the Hurricane has a better forward view then the Spitfire aswell), has no problem with negative G, has a relatively harmless stall behaviour.

I think both planes will be "balanced" when modelled as realistically as possible in a PC flightsim.


And of course, when we're talking about realism here, we won't see only Spit vs. 109 E. We'll see way more Hurricanes and both the Hurricanes and Spitfires should (probably won't) take the bombers out asap. Of course there are also some 110's around to mix it up. And the Hurricane is not really that good against 109's.

[Ernst]

I guess if him even considered slats deploying. In the scientifc way i known well that sometimes one force their results, considering not all variables or considering more, to match the results. It is not wrong at all, but is at less questionable. Maybe both calculation are made most at the same way and considering the same way, this way they agreed so well. You must present the full article (conditions, variables considered) for better understading.

[VO101_HWick]

Originally Posted by Icewolf

who says the spitfire outturns the 109? show me the references from 1940

I think its in Ulrich Steinhilper's book when he is talking about why the allies though the 109 couldn't turn very well. It was that the captured planes were flown in a much "gentle" way. He mentioned that turning for an experienced pilot started when the leading slots opened up with a bang which scared the living day out of the rooky pilots.

He were also talking about the way they climbed. Beginners are always lagged behind on the first few sorties until they learned how to use pitch control in manual settings. He describes the exact way of gaining more power which is valid to the IL2 109s to this day. Use manual pp to overrev a little than switch back to auto straight away before u damage your engine.
He wrote that you could hear if someone with experience flown the 109 from this constant revving.

I might be mixing the source of this, so apologies if this is the case. I will look it up later on when i have access to my books.

HWick

[Sven]

We tend to fly as historical as possible but I take you are talking about a regular night in a dogfight server? Then yes, hardly any organisation will lead to the situation you describe. I wish you Allied pilots luck once it launches!

If you are looking for realism, we 5./JG27 are planning to set up a realism CoD server once it's out with historical accurate attacks, but were still in early stage of our plans, no doubt there will be others with the same plans! We hope take part in realism co-op missions once CoD is running on full power as well

[6S.Manu]

Ok but it's not the next Spit LF variant have to stay lower than the enemy: higher is better in every plane. I'm not going to fly my hurricane at bombers' altitude. I fly high until I see them.

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Sven

We tend to fly as historical as possible but I take you are talking about a regular night in a dogfight server?...
If you are looking for realism, we 5./JG27 are planning to set up a realism CoD server once it's out with historical accurate attacks, but were still in early stage of our plans, no doubt there will be others with the same plans! We hope take part in realism co-op missions once CoD is running on full power as well

So you will fly your 109s nice and slow, next to your bombers, and you'll lose large numbers when the British attack you with more energy than you have - and then the next time you fly the mission, you'll do the same thing? I doubt you'll enjoy that, even though it's historically accurate.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

So you will fly your 109s nice and slow, next to your bombers, and you'll lose large numbers when the British attack you with more energy than you have - and then the next time you fly the mission, you'll do the same thing? I doubt you'll enjoy that, even though it's historically accurate.

You don't get the bigger picture, we plan our attack set up attack routes, we don't inform the enemy where we will be, and we don't know where they will be, the only thing the Allies get is an approximate attack grid which they received from the radar stations, don't get this wrong though, the grid is quite limited and the low fuel load on the 109 doesn't allow much altering from a direct course. I do enjoy real life tactics, I want to get the close as possible WW2 experience, I'm not in for a super ace score using modern tactics and hindsight view about the WW2 and what pilots should have done, I like re-enactment, everyone's interest differ, but this is mine. Overall the Battle of Britain wasn't a turkey shoot, there was fierce battle raging on. I'm not going further into this. Ende. Lets keep this civil.

[Flanker35M]

S!

El Aurens, you just forget one thing That animated movie Searching for Nemo by Pixar..well, the red pilots tend to be like the seagulls in it screaming: Mine! Mine! Mine!

Seriously speaking, I wait for the online experience very much. Maybe it will resurrect the old times when we all had fun. I miss a lot of those guys back then..AFJ, 81Sqn, Cesspool, BlitzPigs etc. You know them We had fun, cheered after a great fight. Maybe time has given a golden edge on the clouds but anyway..those were the times.

[David603]

Maybe the low powered guns on the RAF fighters will lead to more Red co-operation.

Here's hoping

[JG52Uther]

Well,if you want the LW to fly historically,then I expect the RAF to fly hugely outnumbered,in tight VIC formation (known to amused LW pilots as the 'Idioten reihe') and have a 'sitting duck' weaver flying around behind them...

Looking forward to it!