First fight in a 109

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by JG5_emil

If every time you perform a high energy manoeuvre your opponent used the opportunity to trade E for altitude you'd find yourself in a sticky situation. This might work on dogfight servers where it's not a big deal to get shot down and everyone wants their kill fix.

I think you guys really need to train some reading skills. I mentioned this several times now, this "only" applies if you, for whatever reason, already are in a sticky situation. Now you can try to fly all Hartmann style all the time, but I doubt that will work out for a majority of flyers here and neither did it for the pilots back in those days. You better prepare yourself for those moments when the sh*t hits the fan and you have a red on your tail down low without speed.

Besides, there is a lot of good, old fashioned "fun" involved when successfully turning the tables in such a situation.

[jimbop]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

I think you guys really need to train some reading skills. I mentioned this several times now, this "only" applies if you, for whatever reason, already are in a sticky situation. Now you can try to fly all Hartmann style all the time, but I doubt that will work out for a majority of flyers here and neither did it for the pilots back in those days. You better prepare yourself for those moments when the sh*t hits the fan and you have a red on your tail down low without speed.

Besides, there is a lot of good, old fashioned "fun" involved when successfully turning the tables in such a situation.

I tried this earlier today. A hurri had hit me and broken my radiator. The venting had stopped so I thought I may not have long before the engine died. We were on the deck, he was not far behind and at about co-E. I turned sharply and chopped throttle. He overshot and I hit him. I'd think twice if there was more than one around, though. You are stuffed if you miss.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by jimbop

I tried this earlier today. A hurri had hit me and broken my radiator. The venting had stopped so I thought I may not have long before the engine died. We were on the deck, he was not far behind and at about co-E. I turned sharply and chopped throttle. He overshot and I hit him. I'd think twice if there was more than one around, though. You are stuffed if you miss.

*nods* If there are more then one you have a big problem. It's a last ditch method but a fairly succesful one if you get the hang of it.

[robtek]

If you can't run away it's the only viable option, imho

[JG5_emil]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

I think you guys really need to train some reading skills. I mentioned this several times now, this "only" applies if you, for whatever reason, already are in a sticky situation. Now you can try to fly all Hartmann style all the time, but I doubt that will work out for a majority of flyers here and neither did it for the pilots back in those days. You better prepare yourself for those moments when the sh*t hits the fan and you have a red on your tail down low without speed.

Besides, there is a lot of good, old fashioned "fun" involved when successfully turning the tables in such a situation.

99% of the time you've got in to that situation because you've made mistake.

make less mistakes and you'll find you spend less and less time performing crazy energy wasting manoeuvres on the deck in the vain hope that you get away.

If you haven't wasted all your altitude and speed and you get bounced you can then trade it in for speed and bug out to fly another day.

Glad you enjoy what you are doing, just saying that the best way to avoid such a situation is not to get into it in the first place.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by JG5_emil

99% of the time you've got in to that situation because you've made mistake.

make less mistakes and you'll find you spend less and less time performing crazy energy wasting manoeuvres on the deck in the vain hope that you get away.

If you haven't wasted all your altitude and speed and you get bounced you can then trade it in for speed and bug out to fly another day.

Glad you enjoy what you are doing, just saying that the best way to avoid such a situation is not to get into it in the first place.

lol

So there is that last target red side has to destoy and a low going Blenheim is about to hit it.

There is your wingman or a teammate from blue that got himself into trouble low on the deck.

Reds are strafing and attacking your airbase and you just took off.

Should I go on?

Feel free to lose the map or lose your friends by making "no mistakes"

You

[JG5_emil]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

lol

So there is that last target red side has to destoy and a low going Blenheim is about to hit it.

There is your wingman or a teammate from blue that got himself into trouble low on the deck.

Reds are strafing and attacking your airbase and you just took off.

Should I go on?

Feel free to lose the map or lose your friends by making "no mistakes"

You

Just because your team mate is in trouble doesn't been you need to bleed off all your speed and altitude and end up turning in circles.

If you have situational awareness you will make sure you have enough altitude to turn in to energy to make your escape and/or try to stay at least 1k about the highest enemy in the fight.

Explain how getting shot down helps your team mate? In fact it may very well lead to more 109s having to lose their advantage and 'come down to help'.

Your tactics are fine for dogfight servers as no one cares about getting shot down. Would you do this on a coop where you've spent 45 minutes forming up and getting to the target? Doubt it.

[JG5_emil]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Cut throttle, force an overshoot and go into scissors
You

Lets just go back to this little quote.

Why does the red pilot even need to try and follow you in these crazy manoeuvres?

If you cut throttle, he doesn't need to overshoot...he just uses the vertical and climbs above you...now you are dead.

Scissors...he just uses the vertical and B&Z you till you have no energy and are dead.

I'm sure you get some kills against solo noobs or people who don't care about dieing but they wont work against anyone who uses good tactics.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by JG5_emil

Just because your team mate is in trouble doesn't been you need to bleed off all your speed and altitude and end up turning in circles.

If you have situational awareness you will make sure you have enough altitude to turn in to energy to make your escape and/or try to stay at least 1k about the highest enemy in the fight.

Explain how getting shot down helps your team mate? In fact it may very well lead to more 109s having to lose their advantage and 'come down to help'.

Your tactics are fine for dogfight servers as no one cares about getting shot down. Would you do this on a coop where you've spent 45 minutes forming up and getting to the target? Doubt it.

First of all, if your only basis of comments here is to diss dogfighting servers, then you will miss a majority of flyers here.

Then, Not everybody is able or willing to return to base as soon as his cannon ammo is emtpy. Have fun boom and zooming with machine guns only.

And finally, I am pretty glad you are not my wingman with this kind of attitude.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by JG5_emil

Lets just go back to this little quote.

Why does the red pilot even need to try and follow you in these crazy manoeuvres?

If you cut throttle, he doesn't need to overshoot...he just uses the vertical and climbs above you...now you are dead.

Scissors...he just uses the vertical and B&Z you till you have no energy and are dead.

I'm sure you get some kills against solo noobs or people who don't care about dieing but they wont work against anyone who uses good tactics.

Look, we can base this debate on regular occurances on servers, or we can base it on principle and "what if" questions. In a perfect world every pilot acts rationally and acts exactly as you describe it, 109s stay high and dsciplined, Spits won't react to scissors and just use their turn ability to climb above and come back again. Every pilot is a pro acting exactly to textbook. Every Spit pilot knows his place and flies at lower altitude then you and your Radar eyes always spots the enemy long before he spots you so you can make sure you always are in the perfect B&Z situation.
If you live in this world, perfect, I just fear it only exists in your head.