Will SoW be boring and superficial?

[wjc103]

I think Blackdog hits on a very good point in that the "unexpected" interaction between the player and virtual world can be a tremendous factor in immersion and overall gameplay fun.

Furthermore I think I would be reasonably correct in saying that from a realism standpoint the unexpected/opportunistic targets and or threats was a big factor in real operations.

[Spurs1]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

For me, the best sim would be a hybrid between IL2 and European Air War. If you can combine the FM/DM/graphics from IL2 and the immersion factor from EAW, you'll have a real blockbuster on your hands. EAW is an old game by today's standards but it has a lot of things i'd like to see in a future project from Oleg.

Another thing is the menu graphics in most of the old sims. For example, there was a briefing room/tent with the map, then you clicked somewhere on the edge of the screen to go to the hangar where you could see some planes being prepared, then exit the hangar to fly. These don't even have to be real 3D images, just some static screens showing representative areas in an airfield. The top aces chalkboard in Red Baron, the Dora running engine checks in the background in EAW, your squadron roster showing your AI wingmen's kills and who is missing/killed/captured, all of these things add a lot to making you feel you are actually there and not in front of a computer monitor in your room.

having just started to play IL2 and having loved playing EAW, I was thinking the same thing, would be great to have a hybrid of the two. While some things are better for sure in IL2, EAW has some things that would make IL2 better and make you feel you are actually there

briefing room and the chatter, the hanger, even seeing the medals/bars you have been awarded and a tune playing are some of the things I liked about EAW etc

it is just a line saying you have received a medal in IL2, bit boring and hardly exciting.

would like to see you receive promotions too something even EAW didn't have, rather than just saying you have been promoted.

anything to make you feel like you actually there is a BIG plus

SoW could go even further and show litle video clips of you receiving medals/promotions, that would be fantastic, when it comes to giving a game marks out of 10, that is what could make the difference between a 9 or 10, it would for me, its the extras that count

though I didn't play Jane's WW2 Fighters much ( had problems ), that also had extras that were great, showing the stats and clips of planes etc

in regard to the actual thread ideas, I also think it's a good idea to have a variety of missions, of course combat would make up most of the missions, but some different missions would add to the game for sure

[Tata]

I liked very much video clips in Falcon3.0 when you were captured or succesfuly resqued, just taxiing while mission is loading... Or just stedy painted screens like in B-17. Some kinde of any mix of such situation scenes adding immersion very much. And realy i am missing that in IL-2. Would be very good to improve this part of game in SoW serie. Also i think it will add some ratings and also sales.

[BobTuck]

csThor, I fully agree with you, and I think you have hit the nail on the head. Ever since I have heard of BoB:SOW, my one concern was that Oleg and crew could provide an immersive and flexible campaign.

Nearmiss has already mentioned "BOB II Wings of Victory" earlier in the thread.

"Shockwaves BOB II WOV with the new 2.07 patch.....
Currently, the BOB II WOV has a campaign engine,which allows the player to jump into the battle at will or fly within the same squadron time and again. There is good flexibility for level of player participation."

This much improved sim has a great and atmospherically done campaign, that leaves the strategic direction in the hands of the player. This translates thus:

"Playing as the Luftwaffe, I've set up several large Stuka raids against the coastal radar stations, so that a blind corridor can be punched into Britains defences. Now I can jump into a Stuka cockpit, to throw my weight into the Germanic effort.

Some time later...

The end of the virtual day draws to a close, and I can feel some pride in my efforts and those of my A.I. Luftwaffe eagle buddies as I survey the smoking ruins of a once fully functional radar mast. My efforts feel rewarded when I see that the following day, that particular radar station is still fubar, which means that I can progress along my particular plan in bringing the elusive RAF to their knees..."

As an addendum, the atmosphere while flying in BOB II WOV is also top notch. It feels like you're flying over wartime Britain, thanks in large part to the radio speak, and attention to detail to the landscape and aerodromes (all fully authentic).

I can only hope that Oleg listens to threads like these, and realises that everything that surrounds the actual flying is also important (it's the other half of the 'story'), and that he can take great leaps and bounds in the improvement of his sims by focussing more of his attention to this area.

Whenever I think back and remember the great flight sim games that I have thoroughly enjoyed (Pacific Air War, Red Baron 2, Lucasarts Battle of Britain, European Air War, Falcon 4), they all share the common thread of real motivational factors behind the actual flying, usually with atmospheric and player led dynamic campaigns.

Fingers crossed,
BobTuck.

[tater]

A couple features leap to mind for online play that would allow for more immersive play.

One, the ability to spawn IN FLIGHT. Using something we are all familiar with, coop play in Il-2. DF maps have all player aircraft, no moving AI in il-2. Coops have AI units. What would be really useful would be the ability for a hybrid (using Il-2 terminology) DF-coop map/server. You could join at any time like a DF map, but the planes would be assigned in the mission to take off only during specific windows. Say the He111s head to britain. The window might be time=0 to time=10 minutes (15, 20, whatever). The players that are in the server when the map starts hop in their bombers, taxi, TO, and form up like a DF map, UNLIKE a DF map, the remaining bombers in the squadron not occupied by players are AI (like a coop). 20 minutes into the map, a new player signs on, unlike a coop. There are zero planes at the base he can fly, but he CAN take over one of the AI He111s inflight. the same would be true for all planes. So you could have an online "DF" map where 3 squadrons of bombers and as many squadrons of fighters attack a target with 2 defending squadrons of fighters—all takling off at the beginning of the map like an il-2 coop—and a 3d squadron on scramble with a later start time. Any players joining mid mission hop into an AI plane in progress, and if a player is shot down, he can elect to respawn into a remaining AI (stats would be tracked as a unique pilot).

Second, an idea that targetware has. The "disengagement circle." You have a point where players on online maps can despawn, and are considered RTB, but only if their remaining fuel, oil, etc (taking leak rates into account, too) allows them too. Very useful for large maps. Such a system also has a setting so that such a despawn is only allowed if no enemy units are within some server set range, so if you are beating a retreat to the mainland with a spit on your six, no warping away.

tater

[csThor]

BobTuck

Sorry, but I think the example of WoV is the worst possible to choose for an immersive flight sim campaign. WoV has essentially a strategy game campaign but it lacks everything I expect from a flight sim campaign. I do not want to be a General who commands his forces from a desk but a pilot doing his bit with the responsibilities my rank gives me.

tater

While I agree with most of your post I can't see much sense in that "spawn in flight" stuff. I'm a fundamentalist in that sense - a flight begins with take-off and ends with the landing. Those who "come too late" for a planned mission may spawn as gunners of the human pilots in said mission, but I'm not thrilled by the idea to let them spawn as pilots.

[x__CRASH__x]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

There has to be more to this genre than, fly to waypoint and shoot stuff down. Or fly to waypoint and drop some bombs. There has to be.

You sound like you have never flown online. The reason I have flown this sim since it came out was because of the online experience. All the facets of it have kept my interest. Most recently, within the last year, I have started flying an online war campaign. I get a career, and I get orders, and I have a mission to which if I fail, the team as a whole suffers. It differs from offline because in offline AI don't offer the same sort of realism to the opponent.

Fly online my friend, and you will see a whole new world. If you have flown online (Which you probably have, but I suspect it's coops) then try a running server which meets your fancy.

[Feathered_IV]

I have flown online for years. I will grant you that the online-war scenarios have more available options than single player and single mission servers. But that is exactly my point. It only serves to illustrate how lacking the mission-based server and single player experience is. It is not constructive to just say, Ah well, fly AW's then.

Yes, there is fun to be had. Yes, it get that. There is a level of immersion. I get that too. But it needs to be taken up to the next level. Honestly, am I the only one who can understand this?

[leitmotiv]

I understand your position 100% F_IV---you want a complete experience---boom, man management, and bureaucracy. Most people are in these "flight simulator" games for the boom.

My hope is that the SOW system is going to be far more realistic than that to which we are used with IL-2: Radar night fighters, night bombing with sophisticated weapons (flares, target markers, Gee, X/Y-Gerät, etc), and so on.