TBF Avenger and other planes

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

I dont agree fully with the German planeset. Bomber force is awfully represented. Also we missing a few other important planes too: Bf-110C4 flyable, Bf-110F, Ju-88C, Me-410 for example.

What I meant is that although some important individual types might be missing, the main roles are covered, so that if you need a transport, you have one, if you need a recon, you have one, if you need a light bomber, you have one, etc, etc.

[DuxCorvan]

Of all the nations involved, French planes are probably the most underrepresented in the game.

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by DuxCorvan

Of all the nations involved, French planes are probably the most underrepresented in the game.

This has something to do with the fact that France surrendered after 4 weeks, a very short timespan for French planes to see combat on the allied side. Vichy France as an axis country would be a different story (e.g. against Britain). The Free French mostly used British and American equipment. Some French planes like the D.520 were used by Italy, Romania, and Bulgaria, and it would be great indeed to have them (as we do have those used by Finland).

[Furio]

Originally Posted by sniperton

This has something to do with the fact that France surrendered after 4 weeks, a very short timespan for French planes to see combat on the allied side. Vichy France as an axis country would be a different story (e.g. against Britain). The Free French mostly used British and American equipment. Some French planes like the D.520 were used by Italy, Romania, and Bulgaria, and it would be great indeed to have them (as we do have those used by Finland).

Add an unbelievable variety of types, as the Armée de l’Air was caught in the middle of an almost complete reorganization, with many squadron replacing their obsolete types. They probably fielded five fighter types (Ms406, D.520, Mb151, C.714, Curtiss Hawk) and had many more under development and production, such as the Arsenal Vg33. For bombers, it was even worse: Amiot 143 and 340, Bloch 131, 175 and 210, Breguet 693, Farman F222 and 223, Loire Nieuport LN401, Lioré et Olivier Leo 451, plus Douglas DB7 and Martin Baltimore…

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by sniperton

This has something to do with the fact that France surrendered after 4 weeks, a very short timespan for French planes to see combat on the allied side.

To be fair to the French, the Armee de l'Air held its own against the Luftwaffe, but ultimately was defeated because the French Army and the BEF couldn't stand against the Blitzkrieg.

There's plenty of fun flight simming to be had with "what if" campaigns where the German advance hadn't been quite so swift or well-managed, and/or where the French had sorted out their logistical and labor relations problems sooner. That would allow for longer campaigns, or campaigns where players can fly French aircraft that were only produced in limited numbers or which were still on the drawing board in early 1940.

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

To be fair to the French, the Armee de l'Air held its own against the Luftwaffe, but ultimately was defeated because the French Army and the BEF couldn't stand against the Blitzkrieg.

I didn't want to be unfair. I just wanted to record that there's relatively little room for French planes so far as we consider new planes and maps under the pretext of their historical relevance to the outcome of WWII. For this is what we generally do. Our other approach is to resurrect promising projects which historically failed or entered production too late to have influence. The D.520 would qualify for both categories, but the rest of French aircrafts hardly. Yet, all this is pure speculation on our side -- we can get any French plane provided someone models it according to TD's standards.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by sniperton

I didn't want to be unfair. I just wanted to record that there's relatively little room for French planes so far as we consider new planes and maps under the pretext of their historical relevance to the outcome of WWII.

Fair enough.

For any WW2 aircraft sim to really do justice to all nations and all theaters, and to accurately cover events from 1939-45, I've figured that it would take at least 13 "focused" simulations - each covering a specific theater and/or type of operations.

So far, we've got just two theaters of the air war covered more or less adequately - Eastern Front and Pacific Carrier Ops. Even then, there are some gaps in the Order of Battle and some mistakes and omissions on the maps.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

So far, we've got just two theaters of the air war covered more or less adequately - Eastern Front and Pacific Carrier Ops. Even then, there are some gaps in the Order of Battle and some mistakes and omissions on the maps.

Eastern front is main focus of IL2-and thus logically pretty complete (And mostly fun, though early war is hard on Russian side and late war not easy as Germans.)

Pacific carrier ops is complete, if you don't want to go too late in the war. Later on a capable flyable torpedo/dive bomber is missing on both sides.

Med theather is pretty playable IMHO, too - if you are not too picky and can live with wrong Beau variant, replacing a few planes with similar ones(e .g. Baltimore repaced by a-20/B-25) a missing Hurri IId and a few others. And IMHO it still is the theatre that ages best, from the beginning almost up to the end of the invasion of Italy it is balanced on terms of individual performance, the Italian/German planeset just fits nearly perfectly to their Brit/American counterparts. Though maps for that theatre would not hurt, or are rather obviously missing.