4.13 development update discussion and feedback

[sniperton]

If the AI is fighting his war alone, then the AI is very much handicapped...

Perhaps the easiest way to improve AI performance would be to teach them to communicate.

Historically, radio made a huge a difference in RL. It would be great to have this difference in game.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by sniperton

If the AI is fighting his war alone, then the AI is very much handicapped...

Yep.

To be fair to IL2 and DT, I don't think that there's a combat flight sim out there where AI uses intelligent section, flight or squadron tactics.

There's absolutely nothing like one flight going high to cover another flight going low to attack a foe, or two sections in a flight splitting up to "box" a single opponent.

Originally Posted by sniperton

Perhaps the easiest way to improve AI performance would be to teach them to communicate.

Easier said than done. Without radio, signals can only be transmitted if you can see and understand gestures. That might be 50 meters, and only if you're at 2-4 o'clock or 8-10 o'clock level with respect to the signaling plane, and only if you're in clear visibility and are both traveling basically straight and level.

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

There's absolutely nothing like one flight going high to cover another flight going low to attack a foe, or two sections in a flight splitting up to "box" a single opponent.

AI programming is a black box for me, but I guess there are basic tactic roles assigned to individual planes: lone wolf (fighting alone for his life), wingman (copying the wing leader and making opportunity attacks), wing leader (copying the flight leader, but acting independently when attacked), flight leader (responsible for flight attack tactics). But no matter how many flights are there, all flight leaders are on the same tactics. In other words, there are no distinctive tactics for 2 flights together, or 3 flights together. Or at least it seems so.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Easier said than done.

Sure, and I have more questions than answers.

AI used to have mystic vision; now it cannot see through clouds and obstacles. It has been made more 'realistic'. Dunno whether this has been done to communication as well.
For AI does communicate. I hear him cry 'help me' and the like. I can mute him by unchecking the 'radio' checkbox in the FMB. Does it mute him only for me, or does it completely stop communication? If I switch off the radio for a whole squad, does it affect its combat performance? Or do they still rely on some mystic thought transmission?

[ElAurens]

Originally Posted by sniperton

Or do they still rely on some mystic thought transmission?

Umm, guys, the AI are part of the game's operating system (game engine).

They are part of the code. You need to stop anthropomorphizing them.

When you fight AI, you are fighting the game engine itself. It' does not have to send out radio calls, it already has all the info about everything going on in the game. It "knows" the position of every object, it's speed, altitude, if it is in it's or your gun convergence range, and if you have it in your sight picture. Ever wondered why the AI begin to maneuver just when you are about to pull the trigger? Think about it.

They key is how much info the developers take away from the AI programing to make it more "human", and how much they can take away before the AI becomes impossibly easy to deal with.

This is also why the AI always can out climb and out run you. You are fighting a computer controlled, fly by wire, WW2 aircraft that is always operated at it's best performance level and can adjust it's performance inputs at the speed of, well, a computer.

[sniperton]

Thanks, ELAurens, it was exactly the info what I needed. And although I was anthropomorphizing it, with 'mystic thought transmission' I meant exactly that the computer AI seems to 'know' what it shouldn't know realistically. (E.g. the AI's backward vision is hindered by the fuselage, still it breaks the moment before I pull the trigger while attacking from lower dead six.)
But back to my question: suppressing radio communication for the AI, does it affect squad's performance?

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by sniperton

But back to my question: suppressing radio communication for the AI, does it affect squad's performance?

You were just answered, and responded to that answer. No, there is no radio, the computer tells the AI what is happening, because the AI is the computer. Does your left hand know what your right hand is doing? that's the AI/computer's view of the situation.

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

You were just answered, and responded to that answer. No, there is no radio, the computer tells the AI what is happening, because the AI is the computer. Does your left hand know what your right hand is doing? that's the AI/computer's view of the situation.

I expected simply 'yes' or 'no'. I suppose it's a 'no'. Thanks. English is not my mother tongue. Sorry.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Umm, guys, the AI are part of the game's operating system (game engine).

This is a very good point. But some tasks are easier to program than others. Calculating bombing, firing and navigation solutions is very easy. Programming lines of sight is fairly easy. Programming basic flight maneuvers is relatively easy. Getting even a single plane to behave "intelligently" when flying defensively or offensively is much trickier. Getting multiple planes to coordinate offensively or defensively is very tricky.

"Nerfing" optimum performance can also be tricky, since you basically have to "teach" the computer how to behave like a less than fully competent human if you want realism.

Mimicking human performance limits is also a bit tricky, except when you're dealing with physiological limits which can be quantified, like g forces or limits of vision.

But, the extent to which we anthropomorphize AI behavior is a measure of the AI programmer's success. If we can temporarily forget that we're playing against a machine, then for a moment that programming passes the Turing Test!