4.12.2 de-bugging

[Woke Up Dead]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

"all bullets are treated as being incendiary"

Thanks much for this information, since it sort of proves my point.

Doesn't it actually directly disprove your point? You say "all bullets are treated as incendiary" I show you they're not, you say "my point is proven?"

My research shows that at the beginning of the war incendiary bullets were in short supply for the RAF's .303 guns, but that by 1942 typical belting was 50/50 armor-piercing/some type of incendiary. This source shows that in 1944 German LMGs were also 50/50, while two out of three HMG bullets were incendiary: http://users.telenet.be/Emmanuel.Gus...n/fgun-am.html

Since belting can't change from year to year in the game it's probable that the designers chose mid-war or late-war belting for the guns, when incendiary bullets were available and highly used. In that case half or even 5/6 bullets having incendiary capabilities is historically accurate.

"You'll notice that there is no ball ammo in the mix for any of the guns listed. It isn't even modeled!"
Was ball ammo used in air forces? I could only find references to armor piercing, incendiary, explosive/incendiary, tracers.


"Different mission, same result:"
There's those two or three arrows down low that could have gone through one of the two underfloor fuel tanks, #47 and #48 in the diagram you supplied, assuming the layout of the fuel tanks is the same in the 1830 and the 1820 engined versions.

[TexasJG]

Has anyone looked into the java coding to see how ballistics are actually calculated?
Other than DT I mean...

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Woke Up Dead

Doesn't it actually directly disprove your point? You say "all bullets are treated as incendiary" I show you they're not, you say "my point is proven?"

True. I didn't make my point clear. What I was trying to say was that there is an unrealistically high percentage of bullets that can start fires (tracer, incendiary, explosive) in the standard beltings. AP and ball ammo make holes in things, other types of bullets start fires.

So, if you look at the beltings, you have a very high percentage of bullets that can start fires.

Originally Posted by Woke Up Dead

My research shows that at the beginning of the war incendiary bullets were in short supply for the RAF's .303 guns, but that by 1942 typical belting was 50/50 armor-piercing/some type of incendiary. This source shows that in 1944 German LMGs were also 50/50, while two out of three HMG bullets were incendiary: http://users.telenet.be/Emmanuel.Gus...n/fgun-am.html

That squares with my research, too, but I'm sure that you've done more work on the subject.

Originally Posted by Woke Up Dead

Since belting can't change from year to year in the game it's probable that the designers chose mid-war or late-war belting for the guns, when incendiary bullets were available and highly used. In that case half or even 5/6 bullets having incendiary capabilities is historically accurate.

That makes sense. After all, IL2 models planes at the peak of their performance.

Originally Posted by Woke Up Dead

Was ball ammo used in air forces? I could only find references to armor piercing, incendiary, explosive/incendiary, tracers.

It was used for early war beltings by the RAF due to shortage of better bullets. I could also see it being used by other air forces which had supply problems, or for ground attack missions against personnel and light vehicles. But, getting good info is very hard and I'm not an expert.

Originally Posted by Woke Up Dead

"Different mission, same result:"
There's those two or three arrows down low that could have gone through one of the two underfloor fuel tanks, #47 and #48 in the diagram you supplied, assuming the layout of the fuel tanks is the same in the 1830 and the 1820 engined versions.

Possibly, but the two suspect bullets exited the side of the plane just behind the engine. They might have penetrated the turbocharger/fuel injection system, though, which could also have triggered a big fuel leak. In either case, I could possibly see the hits starting a big fuel leak.

There's also the issue of the bullet completely blowing through an engine cylinder to penetrate whatever is behind the cylinder. That's a lot of energy for a small caliber bullet at 200-300 m, even if it is AP.

But, the big problem is that I was consistently getting that particular result. When I post a screenshot, it might represent a sample of 10 or more trials. I don't post weird "on-off" results, since in combat anything can happen.

That said, I think that the H.75 series isn't bad in terms of damage modeling, although it might be a bit too vulnerable to control run hits, and like all the other planes in the game it's a bit too flammable in that bullets instantly start fires. I'm also still trying to determine which models had armor glass and self-sealing fuel tanks. There are just so many variants!