KBDS Normal/Hard/Impossible No-loss thread

[MattCaspermeyer]

Originally Posted by zjazd18

BTW anyone knows how to mod the game in the way that vampire starts with phoenix spell?

That's easy! I am a modder after all!

1. Go to C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Darkside\sessions\dar kside (there is no space there in "darkside", I'm not sure why the forum is adding a space there as there isn't one in my actual text)
2. In there you will find ses.kfs - copy that file to somewhere else on your hard drive (this file is actually a ZIP file)
3. Extract the contents to a subfolder where you copied it ("ses" is s good name - I use 7Zip and you can right click on ses.kfs and it will have "Extract to ses\" as an option)
4. Go to the subfolder where you extracted the files and open HERO.TXT in Notepad
5. Find "hero_mage {" section towards the bottom of the file
6. Find the "start {" section under hero_mage {
7. Find the "spells {" section under start {
8. Add "spell_phoenix=1" to that section of code (valid spell names are in SPELLS.TXT). Be sure you spell it properly, otherwise game will crash when starting a new game!
9. Save HERO.TXT and exit from Notepad
10. Copy HERO.TXT to either:
    1. C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Darkside\data\mods (you'll need to make the mods folder under data as it does not exist normally) - this will affect all sessions (but Dark Side is the only session right now; however, in the future there may be more than one session)
    2. C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Darkside\sessions\dar kside\mods (once again that space in "darkside" is not there and same as above - you'll need to make the mods folder) - this will affect only the Dark Side session (and not other sessions if you have them)

That's it!

By the way, I couldn't resist looking up what the recruiter skill does, here is the ignore list (from ADDON_ARENA.LUA):

local unit_ignore = ",dragon_rider,horseamazon,clown,powerman,ork_scout,priestes,blackdragon,bonedragon,dragon_ice,greendragon,reddragon,vampires_cloud,girl_with_flower,ice_minion,subturn_handler,digged_brontor,infernodragon1,infernodragon2,infernodragon3,"..
    "dummydoll,movingsphere,phoenix,phoenix_young,phoenix_old,griffin_spirit,gobot2,evilbook1,evilbook2,evilbook3,ram,orb1,orb2,orb3,lava_golem,lava_golem1,lava_golem2,lava_golem3,lava_golem4,lava_golem5";

So it looks like you should be able to get anyone not in the list above. I'm not sure why "ork_scout" is in the list, but whatever.

If you have a Necromancer and they Raise Dead, then the following additional units can be added to your army (they are added without any skills so long as the Necromancer is in your army (the Necromancer is not a pawn and its belligerency is 1, i.e. human):

if name == "necromant" then addUnits(3*size*lead/100, {"skeleton", "archer", "zombie", "zombie2"}); end;

Also, I've briefly gone through the code and it looks like the enlister (Recruiter) skill selects a random troop from your army slots and then cycles from that number forward, wrapping around as needed. So for example, if it picks 4, it will add 4, 5, 1, 2, 3 in that order per restrictions. It also goes last in the code and so if you have items / the Puppeteer skill, they will populate the list first and then it will add units from the Recruiter skill. If a unit is added to the list from Recruiter and the list has 4 or more entries, then it won't add any more units (so in the example above, if you had 5 units in the list already, it would add your army from slot 4, but then that would be it).

Since I had just Dragon Riders (in the exclude list) and ArchDemons as the only troops in my army and since I had ArchDemons also in one of my reserve slots, it would always select the ArchDemons (since that was the only troop in my army that it could pick that was not in the ignore list and it adds at least one - this was even with having Puppeteer and summoning troops from the ArchDemons and Call of Nature spell). If I also had a spare reserve slot, then one of my summoned units would go there.

So if you want to recruit troops of a certain type, having them in more than one slot will increase your chances of picking them and as @zjazd18 mentions, putting a unit in the reserve slot will effectively force it to pick that troop, but only if they are added to the list with the above restrictions. If you don't have the Puppeteer skill, then you should be able to have 4 out of your 5 troops in your army and to the list; however, if you have a Dark Knight in reserve and they are in unit slot 3 and it starts at 4 (cycling to 3 last), then they won't be added to the list. Putting them in 2 army slots guarantees them being added to the list and since you have an army in reserve it should then pick them. At least, that's what it looks like the code does.

By the way, I was confusing the Puppeteer skill with the Recruiter skill as the Puppeteer skill allows adding of summoned units to your army. Here is the code that adds them to a table that serves as a list of possible candidates to add to your army:

table.insert( tab_verbovka, { l = math.floor(size*lead*skill_power_puppeteer/100), n = name } )

Note that the function will floor so if you don't have enough leadership and it is less than 1 it will be 0. "tab_verbovka" is the list of possible candidates to add to your army.

With respect to Phantomed units, as long as they are temporary and not pawns and their belligerency is 1 then there is the possibility of adding them via the Puppeteer skill. As far as I can tell, Phantomed units meet this criteria (my only question mark is their belligerency, but I think it is 1 since that means they are controlled by a human). So I think the Puppeteer skill is another way to grow your army via the Phantom spell. Someone will have to try it and let me know if they are able to get Phantomed units added to their army via Puppeteer.

From what I can tell, the above seems right with respect to how I think the code works. The only way to tell, though, is by running it through the LUA debugger. I don't have the time right now, but I may try to do this in the future...

/C\/C\

[zjazd18]

Damn, Matt dropping some knowledge on us. Thanks for the information, but i went ahead and used magicbook cheat to have some fun with vampire. BTW using that modification would cause to get "cheater" at the end of the game?

I'm completely positive that it is impossible to do early game as vampire without better spells than the ones you get from first quest(i'm talking no-loss impossible ofc).

[MattCaspermeyer]

I don't think mods will show as cheater, just cheat codes.

I have not tried Orc / Vampire, but people on the Steam forums said they did both classes no loss impossible during EA.

/C\/C\

[DGDobrev]

Phantoming with Puppeteer? You got it, as soon as I can afford the runes to get it. I will post my findings here as necessary. Any way to grow Paladins or Knights is welcome as I still can't find any more than what I have. I personally prefer Knights to Dark Knights, as the Knights start off with great morale, which means more damage, while the Dark ones need to fight a bit before they accumulate the extra attack bonus. It was so easy with the good old Splinter of Darkness item in KBAP/CW, but so far I haven't seen it show up in my game. It might still be in, though.

EDIT: Yeah, I am a big idiot. But of course Inselburg has lots of Dark Knights and Dark Paladins - I just wasn't looking where I should have been. After you create the Twilight order on Inselburg, all kinds of shops open around the castle, selling all kinds of goodies - but I was squarely not paying attention to that. In the castle was also the Amulet of the Twilight order, that for a whopping 88k gives you 20 mana, +2 Morale of traitor Troops, and a freaking -20% Leadership to traitor troops. Holy hell - 163 leadership Paladins and 119 leadership Knights. Where has my head been til now?

[MattCaspermeyer]

You know, I was going to ask if you had hooked Leo up with Julia and checked around the castle, but thought you had.

Oh, and one thing about the Recruiter / Puppeteer is that the units have to be there at the end of combat for them to be added.

Phantomed troops are usually gone by then, so you'll have to make sure that they are there at the end, otherwise they don't count.

The function "army_update_postcombat" is run at the end of the fight and so it only surveys the battlefield at the end, so if you summon troops and they die, then they don't count either, and for that matter, if you have a stack in your army that is killed then they don't count as well.

Keep that in mind...

/C\/C\

[DGDobrev]

My observations exactly. I was able to get all kinds of demons, executioners, cerberi, imps and dark paladins, as I usually use them for a phantom-res tactic close to the end of the fight.

Allrighty, so it does work, we just need to make it work

EDIT: Ok... while I understand why the devs wanted to make burning, poison, cold, etc. more viable, this is kind of ridiculous. Since when we can't remove those conditions? Dispel is like the worthless thing ever now.

[zjazd18]

Well i was telling you earlier about shops around castle on Inselburg.

Shield of Rage gets rid of post damage effects, it's second best talent in might talent tree in my opinion.

I would love to be wrong about vampire start but i tried many start/spell combinations and there is couple things that are unavoidable. For example there is not a single unit that can survive ranged attack from elfs in elf guardian of light stack. So only luck with diversion could possibly prevent that to happen in first round. Fights against spiders/snakes in catacombs are very hard as well if stack has thorn hunters they always attack skele archers so you have to bench them and they are only source of reliable damage.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but even with magicbook cheat only way to some battles was phoenix - not even level 1 could cut it, had to be level 2.

Currently I'm on portland already and having lots of fun, with huge spell selection from the beginning it's really refreshing. Only restriction i put on myself is that spells from scrolls are not allowed.

[aghiuta]

Finished the game on normal with demoness, it was fun, you really improved the quests now.
I managed to break camilla's quest, SPOILERS to follow:
i killed 6 dwarfs, and when i got back to camilla's island she already had all 7 as ghosts. Killed them, killed her, and after that when i met the last normal dwarf and killed him the quest remained at kill camilla, but she was dead so the quest remained as unfinished.
SPOILER END
For those wanting to replace the reds and other lesser troops, get the Dragon riders from your blackie, they are expensive but gold is abundant, and they rock, without being OP, i usually orc shield them in all fights because they are so hard to get, and limited.

Just for reference my setup for the demoness: Archdemons, Demons, Demonologists, Dragon riders and Shamans, first four spam summons, especially with phantom archies, and the shamans distract with totems or heal all with axes, they can heall all living troops, even dragon riders, which is really useful.
With demoness using Demetrius class III, heirloom sword, and Burning cloak to reduce the leadership costs for demons an Archdemon is down to 510 leadership, so i can pack a whole lot of them.