SOW: your thoughts on clickable cockpits and realistic start-up

[Rama]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

Off-line or on-line, in the many air racing/stunt/formation rooms that would appear.

You must be kidding there...
air racing/stunt/formation flying is allready well practised on IL2, Lockon, both without clickable pits. have you heard about FAMA?
And even with clickable pits, you can't do air racing/stunt/formation flying while loosing time looking into your virtual pit, moving the mouse and clicking... you need fast and accurate on-time reactions. Even the teams that try to practice formation flying with MSFS (very difficult because of the laggy netcode) dont "click" their clickpits...

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Rama

You must be kidding there...
air racing/stunt/formation flying is allready well practised on IL2, Lockon, both without clickable pits. have you heard about FAMA?
And even with clickable pits, you can't do air racing/stunt/formation flying while loosing time looking into your virtual pit, moving the mouse and clicking... you need fast and accurate on-time reactions. Even the teams that try to practice formation flying with MSFS (very difficult because of the laggy netcode) dont "click" their clickpits...

If you would read my post you would find that I do not favor using the mouse. The new rooms that I spoke of, would develope from the thousands of new serious pilots who enjoy MSFS, and do not fly IL-2. The cocpit interface would be the draw for them, to come fly SOW.

[Abbeville-Boy]

Originally Posted by Rama

you need fast and accurate on-time reactions. Even the teams that try to practice formation flying with MSFS (very difficult because of the laggy netcode) dont "click" their clickpits...

mapped keys is good then no mouse is needed

msfs laggy netcode, good reason for them to come to fly sow
but they only come if aircraft not for kids like il2 is
su26 would be hard to ignore for them if it is a like real pit

[TX-EcoDragon]

Rama, I'm not sure how many pilots you know who fly modern fighters that actually incorporate a HOTAS system, but if you do know any, ask them what functionality is on their HOTAS. Based on what you have stated, I think you might be surprised to learn what they have to look, and reach for. Certainly in WWII aircraft the design was very different, and pretty much everything but stick, rudder, and brakes requires a reach and removal of hands from the stick/throttle.

I'm fully aware of what proper procedure is in real aircraft, including the fact that grabbing/switching without looking first is frowned upon in the bulk of circumstances, despite what was done in WWII when blindfolded cockpit checks where employed as a component of transition training.

I also am the first to admit that when I'm flying in the middle of a formation of 6 aircraft in the real world that I hate having to put my left hand on the stick, and use my right hand to switch between fuel tanks, while maintaining position in an aircraft as twitchy as the Extra. . .but that is what happens *in real airplanes*. When I fly formation in sims, I have the luxury to not need to bother with a fuel selector in a sim with such a simplistic CEM model as in IL-2, and if I dont want to, I don't have to reach for anything given the rather arcade way in which I can put it all on the HOTAS if I wanted to (which has far more functionality than even that in the real F-16 which the stick is based on).

I also understand the differences that the poor interface we necessarily have with a computer mandates for those that don't build their own cockpits. It’s absurd to say that clicking with a mouse is unrealistic. . of course it is, but it's more accurate than having it all on a HOTAS, and staring at an INOP panel! I certainly don't argue that any of these methods is perfect, but I'll stand by all that I've said, and I base it on decades of simming, real world flying, and communicating and working with the sim community outside of IL-2, and the resulting awareness of the perception of the REST of the flight sim community, and how the lack of a more realistic cockpit interface impacts the reception of Olegs games within that community. Asking only those already in this community is to largelly invalidate the results since the audience is already pre-selected to not care about a lack of cockpit interface!

If anyone wants to argue that they don't see the value, fine go ahead, but that has nothing to do with the fact that it matters to many, many people, and that to overlook it is to make this potentially great sim that much less, and to make the audience which purchases it that much smaller.

It has nothing to do with “[my] satisfaction”. . .my intention is to support this game, and its evolution towards becoming a legitimate flight simulation when viewed through the eyes of the much larger flight sim community out there. . . not to convert anyone to anything, or to enforce anything on them.

As far as the Su-26, the challenge will be getting the flight physics to even remotely approach the fidelity required to do a decent job of modeling aerobatic flight. . .doing a clickable cockpit would be an hour long job in a sim that already incorporates realistic CEM and an animated cockpit. At least that's about how long it usually takes me on the cockpits I've built for X-Plane and MSFS.

[tagTaken2]

Originally Posted by TX-EcoDragon

I'm fully aware of what proper procedure is in real aircraft

How impressive.

Originally Posted by TX-EcoDragon

It has nothing to do with “[my] satisfaction”. . .my intention is to support this game, and its evolution towards becoming a legitimate flight simulation

It's evolution?

Originally Posted by TX-EcoDragon

potentially great sim that much less, and to make the audience which purchases it that much smaller.

What a patronising attitude.

Originally Posted by TX-EcoDragon

the perception of the REST of the flight sim community, and how the lack of a more realistic cockpit interface impacts the reception of Olegs games within that community.

Realistic cockpit interface? Do you also sometimes wish you could use a mouse to open things in real life?
Mousing is slow/tedious/fiddly and utterly unsuited to the game that Oleg is planning, which based on what I've read, is NOT going to be MSFS11, as much as some are wishing for it.

[TX-EcoDragon]

Think what you like, but I love IL-2, and want more people to give this series the same consideration. If you think that's patronizing, I don't know what to tell you. . .but I'd start by saying you should read the entire sentence, your selective quotes always miss the point.

As far as clickable cockpits and mousing around the cockpit, I thought I already stated my thoughts on that. Speaking of which, I take it you haven't seen what is possible with a touchscreen in flight sims. . .well, OTHER flight sims.

[GOZR]

Well here a little example of what can be done with SOW.. take a hard good look at this.. Enjoy and welcome to what will be the norm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLkfx6QxLfg

<<<<-----
Now imagine this into an older WW2 fighter or bomber.

AT the beginning the Track IR was rejected by many or even considered as a cheat .. that change pretty much isn't it.. ? Some new gadgets are coming and it will be fun but you guys need to stay open to news things that make a simulator a good simulator and a lesser game.

I really think that Oleg is re-considering this subjects since he always wanted something that others simulators lacked..

Note for RL pilots: With Il2's community experience during some years i did learn one thing...you have to remember that on forums Sim pilots will know better than RL pilots.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by GOZR

Well here a little example of what can be done with SOW.. take a hard good look at this.. Enjoy and welcome to what will be the norm

<<<<-----
Now imagine this into an older WW2 fighter or bomber.

AT the beginning the Track IR was rejected by many or even considered as a cheat .. that change pretty much isn't it.. ? Some new gadgets are coming and it will be fun but you guys need to stay open to news things that make a simulator a good simulator and a lesser game.

I really think that Oleg is re-considering this subjects since he always wanted something that others simulators lacked..

Note for RL pilots: With Il2's community experience during some years i did learn one thing...you have to remember that on forums Sim pilots will know better than RL pilots.

Thank's! this is really quite amazing. After viewing this, the future seems much brighter for flight sims



edit: I just read that the
Publisher for Black Shark

The publisher in Russia, CIS and Baltic Countries is 1C company

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by tagTaken2

How impressive.



It's evolution?



What a patronising attitude.



Realistic cockpit interface? Do you also sometimes wish you could use a mouse to open things in real life?
Mousing is slow/tedious/fiddly and utterly unsuited to the game that Oleg is planning, which based on what I've read, is NOT going to be MSFS11, as much as some are wishing for it.

Man, you are one negitive dude, chill out.

[Rama]

Originally Posted by TX-EcoDragon

Rama, I'm not sure how many pilots you know who fly modern fighters

I know a good dozen of pilots flying modern fighters and lot more flying other kind of planes.

I think you might be surprised to learn what they have to look, and reach for.

Of course I asked... They look at instruments... but not at stick, throtle, trim switch, airbrake switch, and all other buttons and switches they use in flight... they KNOW where they are and find them without having any need to look at.
Like all professionals, they know their instruments.
Only while following check-lists do they look at buttons and switches (which in fighters only occurs on ground)

It’s absurd to say that clicking with a mouse is unrealistic. .

If it's so realistic, why don't you push your logic to completely control your virtual plane with a mouse... I'm pretty sure you don't use your mouse to click on the trim, airbrakes, flaps (THIS would be totally absurd...)
... and push it a bit more... why do you need a stick after all? you could move it with your mouse...

If anyone wants to argue that they don't see the value, fine go ahead, but that has nothing to do with the fact that it matters to many, many people, and that to overlook it is to make this potentially great sim that much less, and to make the audience which purchases it that much smaller.

That's YOUR oppinion... without more value than any other

It has nothing to do with “[my] satisfaction”

Really... nothing to do... you don't flight sims for your satisfaction???