Mod: Damage calc mod (configurable)

[Keneth]

Version 1.7.0 and 1.6.5 are the same, if it works on one, it works on the other.

Don't really see the point of this mod, it makes strong units stronger and weak units weaker, making the game even more imbalanced than it already is.

[Ryastar]

Originally Posted by Keneth

Version 1.7.0 and 1.6.5 are the same, if it works on one, it works on the other.

Really? huh, i was under the impression that they weren't. If that's true, then why bother having 1.7? Why not just have 1.6.5?

Originally Posted by Keneth

Don't really see the point of this mod, it makes strong units stronger and weak units weaker, making the game even more imbalanced than it already is.

Well, it in some way makes up for the fact that small units in high numbers do more damage than low number of big units, i guess, but that's always been balanced by the bigger units' higher survivability. I think it would be fun, though

[Keneth]

Originally Posted by Ryastar

Really? huh, i was under the impression that they weren't. If that's true, then why bother having 1.7? Why not just have 1.6.5?

Probably just to point out the distinction between EU and US version, if you look at the change log for the patches, you'll notice they are identical.

Originally Posted by Csimbi

Consider a dragon vs, a peasant: I just can't imagine a peasant with a pitchfork do much damage to a dragon. And vice versa: the dragon does not even need to use its breath attack; it should crash anyone without an armor effortlessly - with just one finger...

But you're missing the point, your statement only holds true when the difference in numbers is small, if one or ten or even hundred peasants attack a dragon, they won't have much effect even by default but that is ballanced out by the fact that you have thousands of peasants with pitchforks. This way, weaker units lose all their effectiveness as soon as the big bads come into play, and don't forget about bosses whose stats are even higher. I stand by my first statement, this mod makes weak units weaker or even useless and strong units stronger, forcing you to use as many high-stat units as possible and only abuse weak units for their abilities.

[Csimbi]

Originally Posted by Keneth

But you're missing the point, your statement only holds true when the difference in numbers is small, if one or ten or even hundred peasants attack a dragon, they won't have much effect even by default but that is ballanced out by the fact that you have thousands of peasants with pitchforks. This way, weaker units lose all their effectiveness as soon as the big bads come into play, and don't forget about bosses whose stats are even higher. I stand by my first statement, this mod makes weak units weaker or even useless and strong units stronger, forcing you to use as many high-stat units as possible and only abuse weak units for their abilities.

Consider a tank and a company of riflemen with machine guns only: do you really think it makes any difference if you're shooting at the tank with 10 machine guns or a 1000? No difference whatsoever, because no matter how many machine guns you use, they cannot even penetrate the armor of the tank. Even armour-piercing bullets have problems finding their way thru.
You need stronger weapon against tanks: bazooka, grenades, mines - then you have a chance.
Back to our question, I think that the same analogy applies to the dragons and a peasant.

BTW: did you try the tutorial with this mod? (At least the first where you beat the dragon?)

[Keneth]

I think even the dumbest creatures are a little more productive than shooting at a tank with a rifle, if there was even a dozen riflemen I'm pretty sure they'd find a way to enter the tank and shoot the driver with a rifle, just like a thousand peasants would find a way to disable a dragon and slay it with nothing but pitchforks and common sense. I think the original mechanism works just fine where dragons easily slay tens of peasants at a time, even the toughest and strongest of dragons couldn't handle more than that except if they threw themselves at the peasants and rolled on the ground, forfeiting any chance of defense against retaliation. Your analogy lacks depth.

[Csimbi]

Originally Posted by Keneth

I think even the dumbest creatures are a little more productive than shooting at a tank with a rifle, if there was even a dozen riflemen I'm pretty sure they'd find a way to enter the tank and shoot the driver with a rifle, just like a thousand peasants would find a way to disable a dragon and slay it with nothing but pitchforks and common sense. I think the original mechanism works just fine where dragons easily slay tens of peasants at a time, even the toughest and strongest of dragons couldn't handle more than that except if they threw themselves at the peasants and rolled on the ground, forfeiting any chance of defense against retaliation. Your analogy lacks depth.

It is of course, your prerogative to express such opinion, however, I am not sure how to interpret it.
Do you mean that this mod is rubbish and it should not have seen the light of day?
Or, do you have an algorithm that would work better?
Do you mean that the original is the best?

I am open to suggestions here - my mod is an attempt to make it more realistic, and I think that the Power4 version was the right way to go. It is quite natural (since it is an initial release that is rather one-sided) that I might be wrong, but it's up to you to suggest a more realistic solution.

***Edit
Fixed a typo

[Keneth]

I would never call other people's work rubbish, however small each mod has had time and effort invested in itself, that wasn't the point, no. The point was that the mod is horribly imbalancing the game to the point where some units become completely useless, that shouldn't happen even if it's merely an unwanted consequence of the changes. And from my perspective, it is not realistic in the slightest (as far as realism goes in a fantasy game), the original system is much more convincing.

[Csimbi]

Originally Posted by Keneth

Don't really see the point of this mod, it makes strong units stronger and weak units weaker, making the game even more imbalanced than it already is.

Not exactly, because Diff=attack*+attackbonuses-defense. Meaning: when units of the same strength are fighting each other, you won't notice much difference. On the other hand, when the difference is really big (strong hero's strong unit vs. a weak hero's weak unit), the strong one will squash the other like a bug - IMHO, that's the way things should be.
Consider a dragon vs, a peasant: I just can't imagine a peasant with a pitchfork do much damage to a dragon. And vice versa: the dragon does not even need to use its breath attack; it should crash anyone without an armor effortlessly - with just one finger...
But, I think it does not happen very often that you meet an army of peasants with your dragons - usually you meet armies that are on par or more challenging. What I want to say with this is that these mega-damage scenarios are unlikely to happen.
BTW: When you meet more challenging enemies, this mod actually makes the game harder...

Anyway, this mod makes the differences:
- less noticable when the Diff is small,
- more noticable when the Diff is big.

Do you want me to make the Power2 or Power3 the default setting? Then the damage would not become so intense around the high edges.

***Edit:
Black Dragon attack=56, defense=56
Peasant attack=1, defense=1
So, Diff would be - without any bonuses - 55.
The appropriate damage multipliers are:
- Original: 2.8315
- Linear: 2.8315
- Power2: 4.35439
- Power3: 7.14356
- Power4: 12.25194
Power4 does look appropriate to me. It can go higher/lower if you have a strong hero, beneficial spells, etc.