Been a while....

[JG52Uther]

So just why has this all started again?
Pretty much everything posted here is in the same thread from a year ago,with maybe a little less abuse (so far)
Most peoples opinions have changed,some have not.But other than that,it is all EXACTLY the same!
This will run for a hundred pages,get more and more abusive,and in the end everyone will be back where they started.
Pathetic.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Whether you disagree or not, that doesn't make you right

Right? See that's the problem... You are missing the pont.. this snt about righnt or wrong... ... the bottom line is the mods are out there use them or don't... either way it is no sweat off my nuts... I use them.. I like them... and I refuse to pass judgment on anyone regardless to their stance. In that respect I have not moved one inch from where I stood when this all jumped off. Fort me this situation does not fall in the realm of right or wrong. Now if there had been a definitive statement from 1C perhaps it would be different.. but there wasnt. Oleg said he dosnt want anything that will allow cheating. I have not seen any of those mods.. but I had enough print screen jerks in IL2 1.20v to know that if people dont want to fly based on skill alone they wont.... You can sweat all this stuff if you want to. I am going to just continue to enjoy the sim.. and promote it wherever I can..

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

So just why has this all started again?
Pretty much everything posted here is in the same thread from a year ago,with maybe a little less abuse (so far)
Most peoples opinions have changed,some have not.But other than that,it is all EXACTLY the same!
This will run for a hundred pages,get more and more abusive,and in the end everyone will be back where they started.
Pathetic.

Uther this all started again (In this thread anyway) because I asked a simple and very legitimate question, considering that it has been over a year since the whole issue arose and enough time has passed to do more than just speculate on what might or could happen with the hacking of the sim, and since the the past year has not brought to fruition 95% of the gloom and doom worries concerning the mods, I was wondering if Oleg had made any statements on the subject since I hadn't visited here in a while and Oleg doesn't post at UBI anymore and this is the official 1C forum, I figured this was the place to come.

The reason I asked the question aside from my own curiosity, considering how this first year has gone (Which is absolutely great IMO.... no UFOs, no laser cannon, no rampant cheating) was because when I did decide to pop back in here I saw a post from a new member, someone who joined this forum in July of 08, asked a question about the mods and all this started up again with that. As I said 15 months ago.. this issue will not go away.... as new people come to this great sim and discover the mods they won't know about the issues and I am certain that most of them will not have issues with them since they are coming from other sims or other venues. Most of the anti mod purists were already in IL2.. partly because it was an unmodded sim and based on past experiences with modded sims that was part of the draw here, I know it was for me, but this has not been unlike any experience with mods I have seen in a sim. The first week on the MSN Zone for me I ran into several people who flew planes that could not be caught, had guns that couldhit you from 15+ miles out and could take a whole load and not even fly differently... It has been a year of mods in this sim and I have yet to see anything that I could legitimately ascribe to something other than lag or pilot error...

so hence my question.

The result was this.... but that still is a legitimate question.

Originally Posted by RCAF_FB_Orville

Hi everyone, err.....I just remembered why I don't participate much in online discussions, particularly ones in which no consensus, or anything even approaching it will ever be reached. They almost inevitibly descend into petty name calling and childish playground **** slinging from otherwise intelligent grown Men who really should know better, and whilst sometimes it can be quite amusing, it gets old very quick. "And never the twain shall meet".

I've been playing IL-2 for 6 years, so hardly a newcomer. I have been reading the Ubi Forums for about the same. Bearcat, you are pretty much the voice of reason in my opinion, and make usually make a valid, cogent and articulate argument....In the case of mods no exception. As some guy from Minnesota once said, "The Times they are a changing", either roll with it or roll over, your choice. I respect the views of the naysayers, and see where they are coming from, but bottom line is you don't like them then don't use them. The prophesied "Online apocalypse" never happened. Is Nostradamus in the house? Maybe 2012? LMAO. I have two installs, one 4.08 Vanilla, and modded 4.09b1 beta. I play the former exclusively online CRT=2, mods for single player only. The mods as Bearcat rightly points out are in the VAST majority aesthetic and will not turn a bad pilot into an ace. They will however, enhance enjoyment of a title which despite its faults is the best WWII combat simulation there has ever been, to date. Whilst many are in fact rubbish, there are many which are a VAST improvement. Fact. Nothing lasts forever, every thing is in flux.

RE: Cheaters.....they will always be amongst us, bad apples are one of lifes constants and nothing will change in that regard. Call me an optimist or naive, but I truly believe that the OVERWHELMING majority of this community are decent and honourable people, who would never resort to such a low thing. While they of course exist, they remain a pathetic minority. In fact I KNOW it.

But there you go, my Ha'penny. On a lighter note.....all the best to everybody for the New Year, and I hope you all have a good one!!!

~S~ Take care people.

Thank you and I couldnt have said it better.

Originally Posted by LEXX

JG52::
Interestingly, when Oleg was forced out of ubi.com (from lack of moderation), he went to the more mod-friendly Simhq community. Its interesting how it all works out as social behavior.

Lexx.... where do you get your information from? FYI SimHQ relaxed it's stance on mods after UBI did. Oleg wa scarce at UBIO long before the mod issue even broke into the mainstream. LONG BEFORE.

[Wolf_Rider]

Yet you can't justify pushing the developer to one side... still

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Yet you can't justify pushing the developer to one side... still

Man.... hush up... You don't know what you are talking about.

What makes you think that because I use mods I have pushed the developer aside? I bought several copies of 46 in 2008 alone... How many did you buy? Developer support is more than just lip service. If you have given more than that then good on you, but you are in absolutely no position whatsoever to pass judgment on anything I have done in this sim as far as supporting 1C.

You don't know what you are talking about.

I have supported this sim and it's development team from day one and will continue to do so as long as they are putting out products of this quality.

[LEXX]

Yough Bear, I was not referring to the "official" Simhq stance, but the "in the street" community stance, as Simhq members didn't buckle under from the anti-mod bullying which was allowed to happen by the Simhq moderators. I think for two reasons....(1) the "street" Simhq community has a higher proportion of Offline players, and (2) is a higher form of life in general -- lacking a better term -- and they generally found refuge there from the Romper Room at ubi.com.

Failure to moderate snotty behavior forced Oleg out of ubi.com, even if that behavior was not related to modding. The ubi.com forum was left unmoderated since the start, at least back as far as the Trim Wars and RBJ and all the snotty insults against customers asking Oleg for functional trim controls. You remember...these customers were accused of; take a guess...

...wanting to cheat online.

That basic snotty behavior in general is why Oleg found a new home in the somewhat more polite, and more Offline oriented, and more hack-mod friendly, Simhq community. Strange but true. Life works that way sometimes.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Yough Bear, I was not referring to the "official" Simhq stance, but the "in the street" community stance, as Simhq members didn't buckle under from the anti-mod bullying which was allowed to happen by the Simhq moderators. I think for two reasons....(1) the "street" Simhq community has a higher proportion of Offline players, and (2) is a higher form of life in general -- lacking a better term -- and they generally found refuge there from the Romper Room at ubi.com.

Failure to moderate snotty behavior forced Oleg out of ubi.com, even if that behavior was not related to modding. The ubi.com forum was left unmoderated since the start, at least back as far as the Trim Wars and RBJ and all the snotty insults against customers asking Oleg for functional trim controls. You remember...these customers were accused of; take a guess...

...wanting to cheat online.

That basic snotty behavior in general is why Oleg found a new home in the somewhat more polite, and more Offline oriented, and more hack-mod friendly, Simhq community. Strange but true. Life works that way sometimes.

and Oleg told you this no doubt..

If you recall Oleg began to get scarce shortly after the whole PF debacle...

[LEXX]

He finally left for good in what, 2007? And he went to the more mod friendly Simhq for his English language forum until he founded the Yellow Wallpaper Site.

I'll try again: The snotty behavior is not restricted to "mod" issues. I'm sure there was much ubi.com snot dripping after PF, after everything actually, and about things other than modding.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Man.... hush up... You don't know what you are talking about.

What makes you think that because I use mods I have pushed the developer aside? I bought several copies of 46 in 2008 alone... How many did you buy? Developer support is more than just lip service. If you have given more than that then good on you, but you are in absolutely no position whatsoever to pass judgment on anything I have done in this sim as far as supporting 1C.

You don't know what you are talking about.

I have supported this sim and it's development team from day one and will continue to do so as long as they are putting out products of this quality.

Well I guess that says it all... except justification of pushing the developer to one side...

"I bought many copies", so does that mean you now own the rights to il2?

Sorry bud but when the come back is "Hush, man" and "you don't know what you are talking about", it only indicates you know you are wrong in your stance.

[robtek]

I also fear for this community to become divided, not only "vanilla" vs "Mods/hACKs"
but als Macks vs different Macks.
But what i also wanted to say is: The reason for all this is that the developer doesn´t develop anymore for IL2.
If there would have been still support to remove the kinks and add missing planes by OM or someone named by him, i mean offically, as a pay-add-on so the workers could be paid, we wouldn´t be in the situation we are right now.
Maybe someone, who has OM´s ear, could indicate to him to Quality-control the Macks and sell the packet, if the Builders at i.e. AAA agree, as a pay-add-on where the price shoul be affordable as only the QC must be paid for.
That would be good for the community and good PR for OM and his future projects (that we buy anyway)
My 2 cents

[carguy_]

Thanks for your input, SaQSoN.