Mossie speed

[Xiola]

Thanks for that link Alpha!

[Blackdog_kt]

I read the same thing about the Mossie/Lancaster debate in a quarterly aviation magazine. The thing to consider here is that a Mossie could carry almost as heavy of of a load as a B17 and the Lancaster carried even more

I think the text in the magazine was "the Mosquito was a precision weapon, like a sword, while the Lancaster was a crude area effect weapon like a bludgeon"

It's an interesting debate but i tend to agree that if enough Mossies could be built they would be a far better alternative to the thousands of 4 engined RAF heavies. They had as much of a carrying capacity as the american daylight bombers, better accuracy in their drops (especially if you add some Oboe equipped Mossie pathfinders in the mix, while 4 engined heavies dropped their bomb loads over empty countryside for much of the early stage of the night bombing campaign due to navigation difficulties), lower chance of interception by the enemy and probably better crew survivability rates in the event of a crash, which the Lancaster was notorious for.

[Al Schlageter]

It's an interesting debate but i tend to agree that if enough Mossies could be built they would be a far better alternative to the thousands of 4 engined RAF heavies.

No, it would be better than the 1000s of American heavies. Try to imagine the same number, or more, escorted Mossies fanning out over occupied Europe, cruising at half the speed again as the American heavies. The Germans were hard pressed with the American heavies so think how hard pressed they would be with Mossies.

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

It's an interesting debate but i tend to agree that if enough Mossies could be built they would be a far better alternative to the thousands of 4 engined RAF heavies.

The mosquito had a far lower bomb capacity than the (British) 4 engined heavies. Grand Slam dropped from a Mossie? not possible, Tall Boy? not possible.

Without guided munitions, all high altitude bombing is going to be somewhat inaccurate, and nighttime makes that much worse.

[Blackdog_kt]

Yep, you're right, but it's no use having a 8 ton bomb load when

a) you can't ensure a sufficient number of bombers reaching the target due to survivability issues
b) half of the time these bombs are dropped on empty countryside and
c) you lose a few hundred of hard to train aircrew each night, while the Mossie only has a crew of 2-3

Of course, during the late stages of the war that accuracy improved and air superiority was in allied hands we could argue that RAF night heavies could at last do a proper job so we can't really discount them totally. The reason is simple, you can't develop new heavy bombers in the span of 1-2 years during wartime.

So, while it might have been more effective to use Mossies until advances in navigation, accuracy and survivability were made for the heavies, we could also say that if no 4 engined heavies were around for the early part of the war then there would be no reason to improve and refine them or the tactics they used, so in the end there probably would be no heavies at all. Interesting conundrum this one

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

a) you can't ensure a sufficient number of bombers reaching the target due to survivability issues

There were bad nights when bomber losses got up toward 5%. If the remaining 95% had been on target, that would have been devastatingly effective.

The main problem was appallingly bad navigation. Dead reckoning just wasn't good enough at night, with the ground often obscured by clouds (bear in mind that there was no way to measure the windspeed in real time over enemy territory with the equipment available at that time).

The mossie has a crew of 2 as a glazed nosed bomber? The Lancaster had a crew of 7, and a bomb load of 14,000lb. To carry the same load in Mosquitos would require 3+1/2 planes, with 7 crew.

[JoeA]

Isn't this all a moot point as the Mossie was so difficult (comparatively speaking) and time-consuming to build?

[Al Schlageter]

The Mossie had a crew of: pilot and navigator/bomb aimer or navigator/radar operator.

I'll say it again, replace the American heavies, especially the B-17. This would give a surplus .50" guns which could have been fitted to the Lancaster. The Lancaster was needed for its heavy lift capacity.

"In 1941 the average bomb load per attacking aircraft was 2,889 lbs whereas by 1944 it had risen to 9,155 lbs according to ACM Harris' Dispatch. In the official history the average bomb load of RAF bombers is given as 6,903 lbs in 1943, and 8250 lbs in 1944, and the corresponding figures given for the US AAF were 3,220 lb and 3,980 lb respectively."
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r_m_g.v...Offensive.html

Can you expand on your statement JoeA?

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by JoeA

Isn't this all a moot point as the Mossie was so difficult (comparatively speaking) and time-consuming to build?

Even though you needed a skilled workforce to build a Mosquito, the skill set required (for building the airframe at least) was different from the other aircraft in production.

The cabinate makers, carpenters, Piano makers etc. that made components for the Mosquito didn't have to compete for production with the other types being built.

The production of a competitive aircraft that didn't effect the other types shows good ingenuity, engineering and manpower management.

That being said, we only have to look at the early stages of the war and the Battle of Britain to show how ineffective medium/light bombers are in a strategic roll.

When the LW rolled accross Europe and when they were concentrating on the British airfield's their medium bomber aircraft (JU87's, Do17's and HE111's) excelled in a tactical roll.

When they switched tactics and started attacking area targets (London for example) They just didn't have the bombloads to do the job. (This statement is not trying to detract from the damage and loss of life caused by the medium bombers) They were using a weapon in a role it was not intended and therefore it made it harder to do the job.

Luckly Hitler was so focused on his early Bitzkrieg victories that he stymied the development of the Heavy bombers that Germany needed.

The Mosquito was a fantastic plane - BUT - only in the role it was intended for.

If you can imagine the planning and logistics that would have gone into one of the British maximum effort, 1000 bombers raids and then multiplied that by 3 and a 1/2, I doubt Britain (or any other airforce at the time) would have been able to pull it off.