Requesting help for evasive maneuver.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Flanker1985

Thanks mate. But can you do a few in a video so I can see? Please~!!!
I don't need offensive maneuver, just defensive. Especially from aircrafts like LaGG-3 where you have no rear visibility.

I'm not really setup to record videos right now so that would be a lot of work.

YouTube some of these terms and have a look for yourself. I'm sure you'll find something that you're lookingfor.

Remember... offensive maneuvering is important so do not dismiss it lightly. You might think you need more defensive but thats a mistake. When on the defensive against a competent foe you're already dead. You always want to maintain a neutral or offensive posture and not be in a situation where the enemy is on the attack. Knowing the right kinds of offensive moves will ensure that you don't get sucked into making a mistake and being put on the defensive.

Sometimes you're faced with no choice but generally speaking these are important things.

Also keep in mind that the LaGG against contemporary fighters is always at a disadvantage. It's simply too heavy and without enough engine power to compete against the Bf109F or G series. The LaGG is good at absorbing some battle damage and its not in a horrible position versus these but the way to win in a LaGG is to ensure you arrive into combat with altitude superiority and that you attack in a smart manner so as it limit the Bf109s effectiveness.

Avoid close in dogfighting in a LaGG. Again...not enough engine power versus the aircrafts weight so any moves that burn a lot of energy you want to avoid. The Bf109 will make up the energy loss almost immediately while you'll be waiting... and thats when they get you.

This is a good aircraft to learn on actually. It's capable but inferior so that when you do get to a better aircraft like the later Yak or La-5 series you'll have fewer bad habits.

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by IceFire

When on the defensive against a competent foe you're already dead.

The statistic is that most pilots who were shot down didn't know they were being attacked. I believe the corollary of this is that in the real world, defensive manouvers, done properly, work.

Turn toward the enemy (if he's behind you, turn to the side on which he is relative to your tail), and keep turning until he's gone past, if an attacker blacks out, his attack is done, whereas if a defender blacks out, and his attacker doesn't, the attacker has gone past so you've some time to recover. If the attacker is in the better turning aircraft and the speed is too slow for blackouts, get more speed and get out of range, but basically keep turning, and keep rolling, even if he can catch your turn he can't catch your roll. Rolling without turning is no use, that's just fancy flying in a straight line. Once he's past, then it's your turn to attack.

A big mistake I often make is thinking he's past before he actually is, that usually ends badly.

Also keep in mind that the LaGG against contemporary fighters is always at a disadvantage. It's simply too heavy and without enough engine power to compete against the Bf109F or G series. The LaGG is good at absorbing some battle damage and its not in a horrible position versus these but the way to win in a LaGG is to ensure you arrive into combat with altitude superiority and that you attack in a smart manner so as it limit the Bf109s effectiveness.

Avoid close in dogfighting in a LaGG. Again...not enough engine power versus the aircrafts weight so any moves that burn a lot of energy you want to avoid.

The LaGG is not a boom and zoom fighter. Which means (against the 109) it is a turn and burn fighter. Get to zero altitude (plus a wings width of height, so you don't crash), and turn faster than the 109s can. If they come down at you they will be faster than you, which means they have to risk flying into the ground to fire at you, if they stay at ground level you will catch them in the turn, so they usually don't. Against the AI always take out the wingmen first, they don't fight unless you attack the leader, and the leader's already fighting so you lose nothing.

[Laurwin]

Defensive manouvers can work in real life,, because they rely on human anatomy. (duh!)

Many of them rely on neurological processes and responses of human pilot in the enemy aircraft.

Isn't this the basic reason why a manouver like the already described "negative knife edge" work in the first place?

Granted, these manouvers usually will not give you a ready kill on a silver platter. (except e.g. big mistake of the attacker, and a killshot from snapshot in scissors fight, from the defender.)

You must work for your kill in most other cases?

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

The statistic is that most pilots who were shot down didn't know they were being attacked. I believe the corollary of this is that in the real world, defensive manouvers, done properly, work.

What about the guys that knew what hit them? I'd say if this gives us anything then it is: Defensive maneuvres CAN work. But there is a counter to any defensive maneuvre, and if the attacker guesses right you are toast anyway. You can sit in the best rolling plane in this game and get the timings of your rolling scissors absolutely brilliantly right - and the enemy makes a no-nonsense cut across your manuvre and you're dead anyway.

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

What about the guys that knew what hit them? I'd say if this gives us anything then it is: Defensive maneuvres CAN work. But there is a counter to any defensive maneuvre, and if the attacker guesses right you are toast anyway. You can sit in the best rolling plane in this game and get the timings of your rolling scissors absolutely brilliantly right - and the enemy makes a no-nonsense cut across your manuvre and you're dead anyway.

The guys that knew what hit them were a small minority. I'm not finding a quote unfortuntely, but I think it was something like 85% or so who first knew anything was wrong when bullets started arriving. The reports were from interviews with survivors.

The enemy can get lucky with guessing which way you're turning and rolling, but if you're evasive with no counter attack, then they're not that close, the turn means they have to lead, and the roll means they need to lead the roll and maintain their distance, altogether it's just not doable without a lot of luck. Of course, two attackers against one is not half so easy for the defender.

Originally Posted by Flanker1985

It's just since the 4.11, the developing team upgraded the AI, and now the AI planes are not stupid anymore

I'm still using 4.07 (I have 4.08 somewhere, but there's a reason for not using it, I forget what it is, but there was something). However, theories about flight don't depend on IL*2 version number.

[Flanker1985]

Originally Posted by IceFire

I'm not really setup to record videos right now so that would be a lot of work.

YouTube some of these terms and have a look for yourself. I'm sure you'll find something that you're lookingfor.

Remember... offensive maneuvering is important so do not dismiss it lightly. You might think you need more defensive but thats a mistake. When on the defensive against a competent foe you're already dead. You always want to maintain a neutral or offensive posture and not be in a situation where the enemy is on the attack. Knowing the right kinds of offensive moves will ensure that you don't get sucked into making a mistake and being put on the defensive.

Sometimes you're faced with no choice but generally speaking these are important things.

Also keep in mind that the LaGG against contemporary fighters is always at a disadvantage. It's simply too heavy and without enough engine power to compete against the Bf109F or G series. The LaGG is good at absorbing some battle damage and its not in a horrible position versus these but the way to win in a LaGG is to ensure you arrive into combat with altitude superiority and that you attack in a smart manner so as it limit the Bf109s effectiveness.

Avoid close in dogfighting in a LaGG. Again...not enough engine power versus the aircrafts weight so any moves that burn a lot of energy you want to avoid. The Bf109 will make up the energy loss almost immediately while you'll be waiting... and thats when they get you.

This is a good aircraft to learn on actually. It's capable but inferior so that when you do get to a better aircraft like the later Yak or La-5 series you'll have fewer bad habits.

No, it's not a lot of work to record video at all. Just use the in game track

Also I think I am giving you the wrong idea about my request. I am not a rookie. I have been flying this game for over 8 years now. It's just since the 4.11, the developing team upgraded the AI, and now the AI planes are not stupid anymore So I need a bit advanced lessens for refreshment purposes.
And that is why I want to see tracks and videos. So I can understand the actual logic in practices.

[rollnloop]

Originally Posted by Flanker1985

No, it's not a lot of work to record video at all. Just use the in game track

Also I think I am giving you the wrong idea about my request. I am not a rookie. I have been flying this game for over 8 years now. It's just since the 4.11, the developing team upgraded the AI, and now the AI planes are not stupid anymore So I need a bit advanced lessens for refreshment purposes.
And that is why I want to see tracks and videos. So I can understand the actual logic in practices.

I'll get simple: if 4.12.2 AI has a firing solution on you, you need to JINK as hard as possible, press tab+8, tab+9+1, and just pray an AI comes to help you before the ennemy AI gets help. Play the AI with same respect as if it was old FB_Viks from VEF days, try to deny a shoot for as long as possible and pray you'll be helped (well Viks would shoot your helping mates too but that's another story).

If you're 100% sure you're on 1 vs 1 try the overshoot (rolling scissors is the best option to me), but there's more than 50% chance you'll get shot in the process.

My usual experience is an AI shooting me at what seems impossible deflection while i'm chasing another one, scoring at least a few hits and impairing greatly my manoeuverability (if not directly getting my pilot or engine), then it's just a question of how long till i die or friendly AI come to rescue my sorry ass.

Sure it's challenging and all, but is it really fun ? I liked the days when i saw tracers passing me and had a chance to defend without getting instantly killed most of the times (it happened but seldom). I think TD/HSFX is good for online and online training (QMB practice), but UP3/DBW/TFM is much better for campaigns.

[mark_009_vn]

Originally Posted by rollnloop

Sure it's challenging and all, but is it really fun ? I liked the days when i saw tracers passing me and had a chance to defend without getting instantly killed most of the times (it happened but seldom). I think TD/HSFX is good for online and online training (QMB practice), but UP3/DBW/TFM is much better for campaigns.

I for once glad those days when the AI shot like a blind man with no limbs are all over... Back on 4.07, the AI shooting model is critically flawed, the only thing you need to beat a Rookie pilot is to fly level, he would almost always empty all his ammo aiming at a patch of cloud to your left...

[rollnloop]

I'm very happy to fight 4.12.2 AI in QMB.

Just not in campaign