Yak-9T - incredible firepower (or maybe incredible tank's lack of armor?)

[JtD]

Look guys, the way it is, if a projectile doesn't penetrate, it doesn't kill. You can spray all the 7.62 into even a lightly armoured tank, and nothing will happen.

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by JtD

Look guys, the way it is, if a projectile doesn't penetrate, it doesn't kill. You can spray all the 7.62 into even a lightly armoured tank, and nothing will happen.

Yep, but please teach the AI not to waste light ammo on armoured targets. I have lost many AI mates due to return fire when their bombs were gone and they pathetically continued their attack with LMGs...

[bladeracer]

Originally Posted by JtD

Look guys, the way it is, if a projectile doesn't penetrate, it doesn't kill. You can spray all the 7.62 into even a lightly armoured tank, and nothing will happen.

I disagree, decent non-penetrating hits can cause spalling of the inside surfaces of the armour.
7.62 is unlikely to "kill" a tank.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

I think it would be more or less simple to do it, there should be a difficulty option:
1, arcade mode: no change, everything stays as is now.
2, realistic mode:
7.62 could destroy unarmored vehicles only
12.7mm effective up to APCs. All tanks, including light ones invulnerable
20mm, same as 12.7, but small chance against light tanks.
23mm, effective up to light tanks, small chance against medium. Heavies invulnerable.
30mm, effective up to medium tanks, heavies still invulnerable.
37-45mm, effective up to medium, small chance against heavies.
75mm, kills everything easily.

That would replace a fairly decent armor model with on that is totally bogus.
There may be a few exceptions, but currently the IL-2 armor model is that what couldn't be penetrated IRL cannot be killed in IL-2 (Okay, in real life projectiles could shatter on impact, bounce off, etc -but that would be too complex IHMO).

The problems start what happens after a AFV gets hit with a penetrating hit -it is always a kill, while in real life depending on hit zone and remaining projectile energy it may very well have not been lethal or do damage at all. So while in real life it is usually necessary to hit a tank many times with small projectiles until some serious effects are achieved, in IL-2 one penetrating hit is all it takes.

That is where the changes need to be made -NOT EVERY PENETRATING PROJECTILE KILLS.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

So while in real life it is usually necessary to hit a tank many times with small projectiles until some serious effects are achieved

Uhhh - no.
What makes you think that is the case?

That is where the changes need to be made -NOT EVERY PENETRATING PROJECTILE KILLS.

Again: You can disable an AFV without penetrating it by damaging the engine(protected only by light armor) or the tracks.
Anything that goes into the crew compartment means sudden, painful death for most of the crew - and that is the only goal of armor piercing ammunition: To kill the crew.

[mark_009_vn]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

A better solution that would require a whole lot more work would be to provide hard targets such as ships and tanks with a "damage resistance" or "hardness" rating, where unless energy from a shot exceeded a certain threshold, there's no penetration.

Penetration are already modeled in the sim ever since 4.07 actually. For example, the NS-37 is ineffective against the frontal armor of most tanks, and 50 cals can kill open top vehicles if you fire at the correct angle. Fun fact, I've one managed to kill Pz-VIs with the 23mm cannon from the IL-2, you'll need a 90 degrees dive and open fire at the deck to do so...

After that, you'd have some sort of "hit point" mechanism for generalized damage, with either more detailed modeling for "critical hits" to engine, drivetrain, ammo or crew, or just a fixed percentage chance for a critical hit of some sort.

Ships have detailed damage modelling that ground vehicles don't, it is very much possible to disable a turret in a battleship with a 500lb bomb. Unfortunately the damage modelling on ships are still fairly primitive (I've never seen a ship looses power before, and it's HP is too little, unlike planes with nearly unlimited HP), but the system is there.

It is possible to extend the DM of ships to ground vehicle as well, things like realistically modeled engine compartments, ammo stores, crews are a walk in a park to make, it's just that it'll require extensive research about the specifications of every single vehicles made for IL2.

On another note, even aircrafts used hit-points .Try putting a glider on take-off against a sea of LMGs, after about 10 minutes the glider will eventually blow up...