Dogfighting -does 4.11-4.12 patch address this?

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

Well, Im quite satisfied with the AI (even though there are a few problems). But, for example that AI is immune to G effects, or AI can hit you up to 6-700meters, can be considered as cheating.

Immunity to G effects is still very likely an issue... give the guys some time and I'm sure they can make the AI deal with that too. There was some effort to make the gunners more affected by G effects too and that's worked fairly well.

The AI shooting you at 700 meters isn't cheating... I can do that. If a plane flies straight enough then I can even do it semi-reliably (i.e. not a lucky one in a million type shot). Particularly if I have a fighter with guns mounted in the nose (Yak, 109, P-38, etc.).

[gaunt1]

Originally Posted by IceFire

The AI shooting you at 700 meters isn't cheating... I can do that. If a plane flies straight enough then I can even do it semi-reliably (i.e. not a lucky one in a million type shot). Particularly if I have a fighter with guns mounted in the nose (Yak, 109, P-38, etc.).

Well, this is primarily the problem of AI bombers. They are quite accurate at those distances. The 20mm at the tail of the G4M is a good example, but the american bombers are also quite good at sniping you from 6-700 meters, even at rookie skill level.

[Laurwin]

Ouch I just had some really tough battles withbf109-g6/as vs yak3p in my campaign.

I could basically fight earlier battles quite well bf109g-6 vs la5

But that yak3p is a monster lol. And there was something like 12 of them in final mission.

Honestly I felt like they had definitely some g-force advantage. MAYBE even roll rate advantage (or the roll rate is just perception of the sluggish bf109 controls)

I shot down like two of them. One was head on, diving from climb. I felr like there wasnt muh to do because the mission started as a scraamble and yaks were almost on top of us anyway. I had the mk108, but barely got any shooting opportunities at all.

Yaks were just buzzing around like ufos and wasting my AI-buddies. It was a sad sight I tell you. Sad to see my own AIs turnfighting with yaks and wasting all their E.

Honestly I would say that somehow my own team AI seems a lot worse in these kind of matchups. And my own AI wingman always abandons me just so he can turnfigjt with a llow flying yak (when there are multiple high bogeys aheaad in sight).

[gaunt1]

Originally Posted by Laurwin

Ouch I just had some really tough battles withbf109-g6/as vs yak3p in my campaign.

Yak-3P? Dont be surprised, thats a cheat plane! In reality, it was nothing more than an unsuccessful pre-series aircraft, which never fought. There were lots of unsolved problems with the engine, and it was so incredibly unreliable that development was abandoned finally. In your campaign, use basic Yak-3 instead.

[JtD]

I think you're thinking about the Yak-3 with the VK-107. The Yak-3P is pretty much identical with the Yak-3 except for the substitution of the 2xUBS+1xShVAK with 3xB-20 guns. According to wikipedia, serial production started in August 1945 and nearly 600 were built.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by X-Raptor

What a great pilot you are m8... please post a track of your good skill engaging 8 vs 8 veteran A.I. (and notice that I even not ask for "ace" A.I. setting.. 109 K4 with a spit LF IXe seeing you killing all of them, show us what a ace you are not only with words... .I'm waiting to see you... may be ..but don't cheat you eh?

Sorry you misread me, I am a mediocre pilot at best -and I do get shot down by AI (but less and less), but not because AI cheats, but because I do make mistakes.
As for your duell 8 109K4 vs. 8 SpitLFIXe -you are IMHO expecting to much from the start -killing all is way too much. I also don't think that happened ever in real life. So why should it be doable in Il2-?
Try real life goals -for starters engaging your 8 Spit and surviving.
And then get into real good position, use the sun in your back, or go lower than the enemy so they do not spot you early (yes, you can surprise the AI since 4.11), shoot at one of them, and get the hell outa there - that is what a good real life pilot probably would have done.
Net result: Maybe you got one enemy. But you still live -you can try again. Rinse, wash, repeat. Or don't.
Or try TnB style fighting and claim getting shot down on the mad AI skills.

Originally Posted by Laurwin

Honestly I would say that somehow my own team AI seems a lot worse in these kind of matchups. And my own AI wingman always abandons me just so he can turnfigjt with a llow flying yak (when there are multiple high bogeys aheaad in sight).

I'm of the opinion too that your own AI does not work well with you, and most of the times doesn't bother too much about what you order them to do.

[X-Raptor]

m8, whatever you say you have to admit what the reality of il2 1946 is now with A.I. : IT CHEAT. and it cheat more and more patch after patch. It is UBER A.I. EVEN IN AVERAGE LEVEL. They shoot at you at incredible distance with no challenge to survive. I know what you are tell about "my mistakes" but you have to discern Your mistakes to UBER-& CHEATING A.I. coded by DT that is a FACT. Is simple to verify. try to make a clean copy of your game patched just to 4.7 (still is a possible and easy downgrade of the game..) try to load a quick combat 8-8 spit/me109 (whatever version just same year of production..43, 44, 45 eg.) -and that is however a Historical dogfight set all to -average- level (just to notice that I want to give chance even to a medium level player..) Now try to challenge this quick mission and you will notice how more "real" is the balance between you and your team vs A.I. - Now try same mission in 4.12.1 game version and tell me how many SECONDS you survive (....) sun or not sun help.. clouds or not clouds help....altitude advantage help.... energy management strategy.... speed management ... m8, you can argue and try whatever tactic you want but the sad and frustrate result is always the same: you not survive more than about 30-60 sec after engaging the dogfight. this is not possible. .. and isn't historic... is this a SIMULATOR? Then I would like to SIMULATE WWII aereal combats! ..not to challege with a UBER-CHEATING A.I. for just 60 sec every mission ending with a prompt bullets salvo into my tail or in front of my engine just every time.

[IceFire]

Could you show us some tracks of examples where the AI cheat? A track and the timecode when you spot roughly where the AI is performing one of these cheats would be useful surely.

[X-Raptor]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Could you show us some tracks of examples where the AI cheat? A track and the timecode when you spot roughly where the AI is performing one of these cheats would be useful surely.

is a rethoric question I presume no?......

However You can simply try the mission I suggested above (8 vs 8 spit/bf average quick mission) and you will find how many situation you want where you can see dozen of:
- Perfect deflection shooting by A.I. killing you (even in roll up/down situation ...)
- Uber climbing A.I.
- Uber rolling A.I.
- perfect front-shooting at one-pass to your cockpit/ engine.
- Your tail scratched by a uber a.I. wingmen appeared in 0,0001 millisecond at your tail immediately just when you try to shoot an enemy in front of you.

try to yourself and you will see m8 ...

[Derda508]

Originally Posted by X-Raptor

m8, whatever you say you have to admit.

Somehow this discussion reminds me very much of the time when I had to teach evolution theory in an islamic country.
You can´t fight believe with reason.
The attack of the unsinkable rubber ducks ...