Where are the new maps?

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

Finally someone has said that out loud. Of course they don't care. Why would they? For all I can see, there's no thrill out there in being included in anything 'official'

Or they haven't considered it is my point as well.

There are a variety of reasons why... I'm hoping someone who maybe connects with these guys more regularly might point them in the direction.

[CzechTexan]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I find that hard to believe, since there are so many excellent mapmakers on SAS and literally dozens of completed modded maps.

While I don't want to start an argument or waste TD members time, I'd be interested in their analysis of why certain modded maps don't make the grade. If nothing else, it would be instructive to new mapmakers as to what they need to do.

I'm also wondering if TD isn't being a bit sensitive over what constitutes copyright. At least in the U.S., you can claim that it is an original work of art if you modify a someone else's work in a significant fashion. For example, taking a copyrighted Google Earth image, cropping it, editing it to make it consistent with 1940s era terrain and otherwise manipulating the image in a photo editing program ought to be good enough to make it an "original work of art."

I have a WIP map of the Kweilin-Changsha region of China on SAS.
TD has strict requirements for maps and that's why it's harder to do them for TD. Example is all rivers at zero altitude is very difficult to do in mountainous maps where elevation is significant from one side of the map to the other.

Also, not getting textures from Google earth (or other places) puts a damper on map building for TD.... how else can good decent real-life looking textures be made??

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by CzechTexan

Example is all rivers at zero altitude is very difficult to do in mountainous maps where elevation is significant from one side of the map to the other.

That's also just WRONG! Rivers flow downhill for a reason! Of course, TD does say that there can be exceptions for tarns and the like, so it makes sense that a river flowing through the mountains could be above zero altitude.

Is there any particular reason why rivers all have to be at zero altitude?

Originally Posted by CzechTexan

Also, not getting textures from Google earth (or other places) puts a damper on map building for TD.... how else can good decent real-life looking textures be made??

Satellite and aerial pictures released by various governments are inherently copyright free. They're just not as readily available as Google Earth images.

And, as I said in my earlier thread, arguably cropping, tiling, retinting and photoshopping an existing photograph turns it into an original work of art.

[MicroWave]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

That's also just WRONG! Rivers flow downhill for a reason! Of course, TD does say that there can be exceptions for tarns and the like, so it makes sense that a river flowing through the mountains could be above zero altitude.

Is there any particular reason why rivers all have to be at zero altitude?
...

The game engine renders properly only water at zero altitude.
Even on high altitude lakes you can see that the shadows are wrong (for example Slovakia).

Here is something for you all to do during the summer. Make a list of best MOD maps and suggest them here. Imagine that only top 2 on the list will make it into official patch. So argue among yourselves why your favorite ones should be on top. Bear in mind that they should satisfy conditions posted in this thread before. Of course, some deviations are possible (I don't see a reason for winter version of objects on Pacific maps).

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by CzechTexan

I have a WIP map of the Kweilin-Changsha region of China on SAS.
TD has strict requirements for maps and that's why it's harder to do them for TD. Example is all rivers at zero altitude is very difficult to do in mountainous maps where elevation is significant from one side of the map to the other.

Also, not getting textures from Google earth (or other places) puts a damper on map building for TD.... how else can good decent real-life looking textures be made??

Glad to have you here CzechTexan. I've seen some of your stuff and it looks good!

Google Earth is of course copyrighted. We may be able to make use of government aerial photo archives that are in the public domain to help in making new textures. Some photoshop work to make them more than just a black and white overview could be used to make some great stuff.

Here's where it would be useful to have some teamwork. I know there are artists who are very good at making repeating textures. If we can combine their efforts with map makers then we can really get something going here.

The river thing is a pain. You can see why it doesn't work quite properly on maps like Slovakia and Burma... engine limitation and a usability issue when you're flying near such water. I'm wondering if TD would be amenable to exceptions in certain circumstances.

[Cloyd]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Glad to have you here CzechTexan. I've seen some of your stuff and it looks good!

Google Earth is of course copyrighted. We may be able to make use of government aerial photo archives that are in the public domain to help in making new textures. <snip>

Massachusetts, where I live, provides its aerial photography for free for anyone to download. Not surprisingly, Google uses this imagery (that my state taxes helped pay for) for Maps and Earth. Doesn't stop Google from slapping their copyright on the imagery that they didn't produce or pay for. No slam on Google necessarily, I love Google Maps and Earth, I use them all the time for work. But, I think it's a bit of a stretch that they get to claim rights to my screengrab from their free viewer programs of imagery that they do not own or produce. F'n lawyers!

Cloyd

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by horseback

Speaking of maps, how about a method of 'jumping' from one map to another in a single mission format? If you're taking off from the Kuban to patrol over Crimea for instance, from 'England' to Normandy, or from 'Rabaul' to Guadalcanal it would be quite useful. Some way of linking the maps together (and they wouldn't have to be adjacent to each other) with way of assigning fuel burned + altitude gained/lost and time gone on the cockpit clock in a single mission would be very cool.

cheers

horseback

That is a great idea, though I'm not sure that there are a lot of maps that would be usable in that way in the stock game. I wonder how difficult a feature like that would be to retrofit into the game? I doubt it would be a cakewalk.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by BadAim

That is a great idea, though I'm not sure that there are a lot of maps that would be usable in that way in the stock game. I wonder how difficult a feature like that would be to retrofit into the game? I doubt it would be a cakewalk.

Maps that just cover a limited area and don't "scroll" as you fly are the trade-off you make for having actual populated towns, trees and woods. It worked well when IL2 was a low-altitude, tactical "mud moving" sim, not so well now that there are player flyable strategic bombers planes.

I think that it would be a lot of work to allow jumps to new maps, especially if you have missions where planes are scattered across two or more maps. Online it would be a nightmare, especially if people on different maps couldn't interact with each other. Also, how do you handle sighting across two different maps? And, what happens when you have people fighting at the conjunction of four different maps!

About the only way it could possibly work is to rework the existing maps in the game so that they are all standardized "tiles" designed to allow smooth transition from one map to the next. Then, you'd have to rework the game engine so that it could keep track of everything happening on or above each tile. For online, you'd need to make it so that the server could handle dozens of combats over each tile!

I think it could be done with the computer power available these days, but it would be a whole new sim. I sure don't think that it would be fair to ask TD to do that.