P-51 Combat Tips and Tricks ( Dogfight Guide )

[K_Freddie]

Are you saying that the FM does not model fuel usage properly - Come to think of it, it doesn't.. otherwise we'll have people stalling out of the sky second to none

[JtD]

500 kg fuel is 100% for the Fw 190D-9 and about 70% for the P-51, which gives them similar endurance. 1900hp is indeed with boost.

[T}{OR]

Can you provide graphs with lets say 30% fuel in the Mustang and the same equivalent for 190 Dora? Something that would depict a typical online scenario (my presumption here is based on your comment that it gives them the same endurance, and that 30% fuel in Dora would be enough - it has been even longer when I last time took one up to virtual skies and I am away from my PC right now to test if it would).

Originally Posted by K_Freddie

Are you saying that the FM does not model fuel usage properly - Come to think of it, it doesn't.. otherwise we'll have people stalling out of the sky second to none

Correct. If it even models CoG shift / change based on the fuel load, it is very primitive. That is the info I have. In reality, Mustangs never operated in combat with center fuel tank full - that one was drained first as it seriously impacted its CoG and performance. We have it draining last in the game.

Speaking of, I'd love to have the ability to manually switch between different tanks during flight. Especially when flying bombers like I do nowadays (i.e. B-25 is notorious for losing fuel rapidly if you get a ruptured tank).

[pandacat]

Originally Posted by K_Freddie

Are you saying that the FM does not model fuel usage properly - Come to think of it, it doesn't.. otherwise we'll have people stalling out of the sky second to none

Actually, there have been multiple posts and comments on various forums about this subject. You can go search ubi forum for instance or even google search. Even the game designer admitted that IL-2, being a 10yr old game, took a very primitive approach towards fuel management modeling. In the case of P-51, the game only models one big fuel tank; it does not distinguish between wing tanks and fuelsalage tank. As you fly and fuel drains, all the game does is subtract overall weight and prolly do a bit parallel shifting to aircraft's performance curves. But the matter of fact is that's far from accurate for a real life mustang. As I said before, two exactly same mustangs, one with 50gal in fuelsalage tank and another with 25gal each in wing tanks. Although they weigh the same their performances are vast different. But based on this particular game's modeling logics, their in-game performance will be exactly the same. If you own A2A Accu-sim p-51, which is a much more accurate portrait of real life pony than IL-2, you can do the test (just make sure you load more than 20gal in fuesalage tank; anything more than 20 will shift COG significantly). I believe DCS P-51 (FM is very similar to A2A one) can do the same although I am not 100% sure. Back in WWII, the standard procedure for P-51s on long range escort missions was to drain fuelsalage tank first, then drop tanks and wing tanks last. By the time they crossed the channel into France, their fuelsalage tank will be way below 20gal or even empty. And if they are engaged by LW at this moment onwards, they can simply dump the drop tanks and leave a clean and very manuverable plane to dogfight with enemy.

[MaxGunz]

Originally Posted by JG27_PapaFly

The poor one-pass-one-kill capability means most P51 drivers repeat their BnZ attack, and the poor power-to-weight ratio and relatively high wing loading means they bleed lots of E with each pass.

Only from being heavy on the stick and likely diving farther than they should.

A good attack for P-51 is yoyo or a rolling lag attack that lets you stay behind the target while getting occasional deflection shots. Line your wings up right and the near flat X spread will work for you.

There's an exercise you can try, it does apply to combat vs slower planes and slower pilots in faster planes. Fly in a tilted circle pattern, get the tilt up steep and let the circle get as big as it needs to be to keep speed loss down. You should reach amazing speeds along the bottom and get a feel for how much stick you can pull without creating excess drag. Up along the top, make sure you have speed to dodge shots and note how fast the nose can come around between maneuver speed and gravity assist.
The circle should get real big in a P-51. In tactic it's a matter of keeping a pursuer unable to follow and shoot at the same time. If he tries, you spiral up over him and pwn, pwn, pwn. If he runs, you run him down.
So he will keep trying to follow inside your circle and watch the timing to keep his nose able to cover him. And at the top of your circle when he is trailing up on his, spiral up just long enough for him to either circle at near stall below you or start on his way down and you have him.

You do the exercise while watching gauges and lower windshield. Make sure to keep the ball centered. Wide enough flat turn and you should be able to maintain 250mph and better. Add the vertical and it gets better.

[Snake]

MaxGunz, why don't you record a track with this exercise and post it here? I would be very curious to see this exercise performed by yourself!

[K_Freddie]

The challenge is on..

[K_Freddie]

Actually I think MaxG is right here...

If the modelling is correct in DCS, I've been doing some P51-vs-P51 DFs and the AI here is a sheit to try and shoot down. He's doing exactly what MaxG is describing, and I'm forced to fly like this to keep up.. getting only occasional hits.. before my engine blows (I must still read the EM manual ).