P-51 Combat Tips and Tricks ( Dogfight Guide )

[CWMV]

I've taken 6 mustangs in 20 minutes on spits v 109's back when I was flying with a squad. Pretty easy when you get em low.
It's all about knowing your machine and exploiting what it does best. Applies to every plane.

I've never understood how yall can fly the 190. Just a dreadful machine! In a 109 I fear no other plane, but in a 190 spits scare the piss out of me.

[Black_Sage29]

Originally Posted by JG27_PapaFly

I'll second that. A single mustang attacking a single 190 is a pain in the ass, but otherwise my team happily chews up all P51s it encounters. We usually enjoy it because it's a big and relatively soft target that doesn't turn very hard. They are very seldomly able to outrun us. They cannot outdive us, especially not the D9. They are a pain in the ass against 190A versions above 6000m. But then we always have a Dora in our mix in order to be able to catch just about anything at higher alts. Another P51 weakness is it bleeds lots of energy while boom-and-zooming, and of course when it turns hard.

S!

P-51 does "not" bleed off a lot of energy in BnZ. It's one of the best BnZ planes I've ever fought with. You can bounce a bandit at 350mph-450mph, and zoom up thousands of feet back above your target.

Originally Posted by JtD

Kind of speaks volumes about the quality of the combat you usually see - the P-51 can outrun all contemporary German prop fighters and outdive them as well. If you catch them in a dive and a D-9 can catch them at higher altitude, I don't think you've seen a properly flown one.

This! I've outran plenty of Fw-190's and BF-109's with no problem. P-51 is VERY fast..especially when properly trimmed

Don't know much about outdiving german planes..I never dive right in front of a bandit..especially with a Fw-190 on my tail cause just a couple of shots from it's guns and hurt you bad. I usually split-S..or try to initiate some kind of vertical rolling scissors....or chop throttle and let them pass me. They usually zoom back up though

Originally Posted by T}{OR

Mustang III is the fastest of the bunch, and no LW prop plane can catch it. Downside is that, like all non bubble top versions, it only has two pairs of .50 cals. So you really have to work for your kills. Thus I always took the D model whenever it was available.

How to best describe a mustang in few words:

• You can run away from any opponent, provided you have the room for diving away. If the situation is unfavorable for you that is.
• "Glass" engine (do not do headons unless there is no way out).
• In order to get the most out of it you need to master trimming, fire discipline (firing only when the target is in ideal convergence) and prop pitch for various aspects of flight.
• Never ever take more than 50% fuel (that alone will give you over 2h of flight at max power and RPM). Preferably take 30-35%. Lots of fuel = lots of extra weight. And this thing has insane range.
• Correct propeller pitch settings will make it accelerate like no other plane in a dive. Literary, you can dive as if someone put an afterburner on you. Just be vary of the powerful elevators, not to lose a wing.
• Best used for hit and run tactics against experienced pilots. Against those of a lesser skill you can stay and play with for a while.
• K-14 "ace maker" gunsight is interesting to use, but don't get overly used to it.

In combat vs. LW planes, you can out turn a 109 or 190 easily - but you have only one chance. Then you loose all your energy. So use this as defensive maneuver to get out of harms way and keep your speed up as much as you can.

Versus Japanese planes it is simply a dream plane to fight with. There is nothing that will even come close to your speed if you conserve your energy. Those .50 cals are at least twice as effective here.


This is definitely not a plane for rookies and those that lack patience. You need to get rid of a lot of bad habits and change your approach if you wish to be good with this plane.

Good post. Yea just today I reach about 460mph in a dive..and when i came out of the dive i was able to maintain a speed of about 480mph

Also, you don't have to always hit-and run or BnZ a bandit with P-51. It's really fast you can really make a pass on a bandit that is the same alt as you and if he turns you just zoom up and roll over on him. Basically a boom-and-zoom without the diving part

.50 cals don't do much when shooting a bandits six. Deflection shots usually take out bandits engine or set it on fire most of the time. It's like a rainfall of bullets and the LW plane fly right through it lol..getting bullets sprayed all over from head to tail



P-51 is definitely for skilled pilots..Fw-190's are too for that matter.

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by CWMV

I've never understood how yall can fly the 190. Just a dreadful machine! In a 109 I fear no other plane, but in a 190 spits scare the piss out of me.

Spits are easy meet vs. 190s. Once you learn to appreciate speed that is. There is no running away when in a spitfire, with 190 and P-51 you can more often than not disengage if the situation is unfavorable.

Originally Posted by JtD

I not so long ago scored 15 kills in one 45 minute online sortie. I don't think I ever came close to this in a 109. In fact, would doubt a 109 can do that. The 190 certainly is more than a plane for special type masochists, it's a killer. (Meaning: The 190 can exploit favourable circumstance like in my sortie to an extent the 109 can't, imho.)

Exactly what I am saying. My record with P-51 is 6 victories in one sortie, IIRC.

Originally Posted by Black_Sage29

P-51 is definitely for skilled pilots..Fw-190's are too for that matter.

Seconded. Some of the best defensive maneuvers I learned from 190 drivers.

[Black_Sage29]

Just saw your p-51 mustang compilation video Thor. wow..the was beautiful. A work of art. Very nice flying

[MaxGunz]

The pilot makes a bigger difference than the plane.

"Plane X is better than plane Y" is an error in thinking. These planes don't fly themselves and it's not what you meet online but who that really matters.

Next most important is the situation. Then comes the plane.

So many kills in so many minutes.... do you count the mudhens? Then stop. Mudhens don't count.

[RegRag1977]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

The pilot makes a bigger difference than the plane.

"Plane X is better than plane Y" is an error in thinking. These planes don't fly themselves and it's not what you meet online but who that really matters.

Next most important is the situation. Then comes the plane.

So many kills in so many minutes.... do you count the mudhens? Then stop. Mudhens don't count.

I agree.

[pandacat]

Thor is by far one of the best pony drivers I have ever known along with Kling, who I believe has quit the game long time ago. I also have really enjoyed your video, cheers! I also believe p51 is one of the best in the game even though I don't know how realistically the FM of a real Stang is being portraited here. There has been a long history of debate on this subject on many forums and I don't want get into that here. But in my gut feeling, its FM probably is not on par with that of Accusim one or DCS one, being a game 10yrs + old. What is really lacking for Mustang in this game is its armement. 6 50's in this game is really a peashooter. As a matter of fact I don't c any difference between 4 50's and 6 50's or even between 6 50's and 4 30's. I have seen many WWII gun cams where 190's and 109s got shredded by 50's, but you don't c that much here in the game.

For those veteran pony drivers in this game, would someone be kind enough to disclose a bit tricks on how to properly trim this aircraft? Is it as long as the ball is center then you are perfectly trimmed? Also some tips on how to use Pro Pitch. I know someone will tell me there are Kling's videos, but those are 5yrs old now and the game has been patched so many time since. Are those tips still valid?

[Janosch]

Originally Posted by pandacat

6 50's in this game is really a peashooter.

No, no, no it isn't.

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by pandacat

Thor is by far one of the best pony drivers I have ever known along with Kling, who I believe has quit the game long time ago. I also have really enjoyed your video, cheers! I also believe p51 is one of the best in the game even though I don't know how realistically the FM of a real Stang is being portraited here. There has been a long history of debate on this subject on many forums and I don't want get into that here. But in my gut feeling, its FM probably is not on par with that of Accusim one or DCS one, being a game 10yrs + old. What is really lacking for Mustang in this game is its armement. 6 50's in this game is really a peashooter. As a matter of fact I don't c any difference between 4 50's and 6 50's or even between 6 50's and 4 30's. I have seen many WWII gun cams where 190's and 109s got shredded by 50's, but you don't c that much here in the game.

For those veteran pony drivers in this game, would someone be kind enough to disclose a bit tricks on how to properly trim this aircraft? Is it as long as the ball is center then you are perfectly trimmed? Also some tips on how to use Pro Pitch. I know someone will tell me there are Kling's videos, but those are 5yrs old now and the game has been patched so many time since. Are those tips still valid?

Thanks for the kind words. I did enjoy making that video a lot.

6x50s are more than enough if you know how to discipline yourself and fire at the right distance / set convergence. I think I demonstrated that very nicely in my video. And that was even before we got more API rounds in the belt.

Few tips, as requested:

• When pulling deflection shots, add a little more deflection than you think is needed - .50 are a bit slower, especially if you are used to german MGs.
• Trim the nose down, I personally used 14 clicks (on keyboard) after resetting to zero first. I flew with this setting all the time. This alone will make it a much more stable firing platform.
• Trim the rudder for different speeds, in particular for level flight and when diving. For me, this varied from 2 clicks when doing +800 km/h to 8-10 clicks for level flight. Do it even when zoom climbing.
• Fly with closed radiator and do not use WEP (over 100% power) below 3000m as it serves no purpose. *
• Learn to use your gunsight. My ideal convergence (in the video) was 200m.
• Some people recommend adjusting axes for elevators in order not to break the wings so easily if you are not careful. Both Kling and I used 100 on all axes for faster response when firing.

* I didn't even took it to skies with this new overheating FM. Needs checking.

Looking back now few years later, I came to conclusion that my perfectionism and diligence, especially with trimming for every speed and maneuver helped a lot with achieving those victories in a Mustang. I did have evenings when nothing seemed to work and I got damaged or shot down by insanely lucky maneuvers or as result of my stupid mistakes. But those were fewer than what I experienced and showed in the video.

As far as Mustang being an excellent fighter - you really need to clean up your mind of all the stuff you heard / saw at History channel. For escort duties and long ranges, where you need the speed and do not wish to lose time by dogfighting P-51 was and still is an ideal plane. You will soon learn to appreciate the possibility of disengaging when you are outnumbered. And extending away to gain altitude for another strike.


EDIT: Superseded by post #42.

[JG27_PapaFly]

Originally Posted by Black_Sage29

P-51 does "not" bleed off a lot of energy in BnZ. It's one of the best BnZ planes I've ever fought with. You can bounce a bandit at 350mph-450mph, and zoom up thousands of feet back above your target.

You can come and do this right next to my D9'44, and the pony will be second, especially after several passes. And for the vast majority of times you need several passes in the mustang, loosing lots of E with each pass. The poor one-pass-one-kill capability means most P51 drivers repeat their BnZ attack, and the poor power-to-weight ratio and relatively high wing loading means they bleed lots of E with each pass.

Pony drivers underestimating the D9's diving power are in for a big surprise. I regularly reach 870kph in the D9, the redline being 900kph. Here's a trick we often play on P51s: I'll let one of my A9-flying squadmates move away from the diving pony's 6 o'clock, say to the 5 or 7 o'clock, so the pony driver can see him, and see that the FW is not gaining on him...all while i creep up on his ass unseen and blast him to bits in the D9. Especially the initial dive acceleration is much poorer in the P51 compared to the A9 and D9, power-to-weight ratio being the issue.