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[Jaws2002]

It's pretty obvious clod engine is significantly more advanced than rof engine, but the problem is the management we had in clod killed it. The last two years they just moved around in circles, fixing one thing and messing two. It's understandable 1C wants them out.
The ideal fix, if 1c hd some vision, would be to get Jasson and rof team fix the sucker. That would have made more sense for the future. However, 1c wants money, not a great, next generation simulator. What we want and what 1c wants are not the same thing.
In the short run, for the very next product, they'll maybe do ok and mke money. But few months from release, the things we'll miss will turn a lot of people off. Than, 1c will be left with a very old game engine they'll have to scrap and start from scratch.

I like rof a lot. I bought most stuf they offered. But it's engine is pretty limited compared to what we are used to.
There are few things to consider when you look at wht made rof a success. It came at a time, when there was nothing going on in il2 world and a lot of il2 players were bored witing for CCLOD. There were a lot of people that used to play red baron and OFF, and for this guys rof was light years ahead of what they used to play. And let's not forget the absolutely awesome hard working team, that when decided to fix something, they did it right the first time.
I'm sure, if rof team had the money availble for rof, that Maddox games had, they could have done a working sim, at least as advanced as cliffs of Dover.
That initial lack of funds decided how far they can go with the engine. They achieved a lot with what they had.
Sadly, the limits they had to put on the engine, tight budget and timeline, will make it hard for them to make an impressive, future proof product.
This are a hard working and well managed bunch of guys. I hope they can pull it off. I just don't see this new bussines model investing in the advanced features that make a great sim.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Jaws2002

It's pretty obvious clod engine is significantly more advanced than rof engine, but the problem is the management we had in clod killed it. The last two years they just moved around in circles, fixing one thing and messing two. It's understandable 1C wants them out.
The ideal fix, if 1c hd some vision, would be to get Jasson and rof team fix the sucker. That would have made more sense for the future. However, 1c wants money, not a great, next generation simulator. What we want and what 1c wants are not the same thing.
In the short run, for the very next product, they'll maybe do ok and mke money. But few months from release, the things we'll miss will turn a lot of people off. Than, 1c will be left with a very old game engine they'll have to scrap and start from scratch.

I like rof a lot. I bought most stuf they offered. But it's engine is pretty limited compared to what we are used to.
There are few things to consider when you look at wht made rof a success. It came at a time, when there was nothing going on in il2 world and a lot of il2 players were bored witing for CCLOD. There were a lot of people that used to play red baron and OFF, and for this guys rof was light years ahead of what they used to play. And let's not forget the absolutely awesome hard working team, that when decided to fix something, they did it right the first time.
I'm sure, if rof team had the money availble for rof, that Maddox games had, they could have done a working sim, at least as advanced as cliffs of Dover.
That initial lack of funds decided how far they can go with the engine. They achieved a lot with what they had.
Sadly, the limits they had to put on the engine, tight budget and timeline, will make it hard for them to make an impressive, future proof product.
This are a hard working and well managed bunch of guys. I hope they can pull it off. I just don't see this new bussines model investing in the advanced features that make a great sim.

I read today that MG may have had a complete turnover of its coding personnel 2 years ago, and so if true, would explain things somewhat.

[AbortedMan]

I installed RoF for the first time last night, (had no interest before to do so because I wasn't into WWI) and I have to say I'm really impressed.

The engine is solid and interface and delivery of the game is very well polished and extremely functional, yet stylish. Much more so than Cliffs. It was (weird) refreshing seeing a polished and complete sim after playing Cliffs for so long.

Flight felt good. The scale is appropriate and akin to CloD, by that I mean "fast" feels fast, and "high altitude" feels high altitude. This is also a relief when comparing to other modern sims such as War Thunder (I'm in the beta)...a potentially good game, but right now, is completely missing its mark when it comes to a good flight "feeling", even with its "full realistic" simulator mode.

There were friendly and enemy AI in abundance on the multiplayer server mission I tried, along with plenty of ground targets and ground action. Dunno what all this fuss about RoF's engine not being able to handle ground objects is.

The graphics looked really good and very on par with Cliffs of Dover, for the most part, I couldn't tell the difference after I applied SweetFX's filters.

I don't understand what the crying is about. If BoS is held to the same standard of quality as RoF, then we're definitely in for a good time.

[vranac]

Originally Posted by AbortedMan

The graphics looked really good and very on par with Cliffs of Dover, for the most part, I couldn't tell the difference after I applied SweetFX's filters.

I don't understand what the crying is about. If BoS is held to the same standard of quality as RoF, then we're definitely in for a good time.

You must be blind if you don't see the difference between cartoonish dx9 engine
and advanced graphic engine in Clod.

Again on ground targets, I suppouse you never been in some online wars like SEOW and AW war

http://seowhq.net/

http://war.by-airforce.com/

And this is imposible to do in Rof engine on this scale.Old Il2 engine is a way superior compared with Rof engine for this kind of campaigns.

The Eastern front is based on support for the ground troops.

Here Jason answers about ground units

http://forum.il2sturmovik.net/index....age=3#entry959

5JG27Farber, on 12 Dec 2012 - 00:30, said:

I really hope the next engine to promote IL2 is able do now what we do in Cliffs of Dover!



I have just been into a teamspeak 3 and asked a group which has succesfully ran a server in RoF since its release about the current state of the engine. The answers were pretty grim. 75 players, 60-70 ground and if you have fewer players, around 35 instead of 75 players, then you can have 8 - 16 AI aircraft. Apparently its to do with multi-threading and cores.



Currently on clod without dedicated server files on our server (Storm of War) I'd say the confortable max for client performance is more like 90 players, 1200 statics (Some people I know have used 4000 however this is not good for performance however the missions did work) and ground AI, and 50 AI bombers...





What can we expect from this new venture in terms of a ground war, Air war and players all in one server?

Jason

1. All of our objects in ROF such as trucks planes etc. have a brain. That brain takes up resources. Simple static objects are a whole other issue and we did not have time to build simple static objects out of objects with a brain. Also, our engine synchronizes everything so everyone on the server sees the same thing. Even parts falling out of the sky, control surface movement, cloud position and movement, pilots heads turning with TrackIR etc. We did so for fidelity, but other sims get around this by not synchronizing everything in MP. Whatever comments made about this having to do with multi-threading and cores is not accurate. Intel has worked closely with us and they have even recognized ROF as a very well optimized multi-threaded application. BOS will not be an MMO so battles with hundreds of players on one server is not to be expected. There will be plenty of action in the air and on the ground I am sure.. As I said above about graphics, we won't get fixated on one detail at the expense of overall functionality, but the team will be aggressive without being foolish. What the final product looks like and how it performs is still an unknown, there is simply too much work to do. BOS will also have a Dedicated server option as does ROF.

We will see what Loft will say today, answering the precise questions about
graphic quality (dx9?) , size of the maps, and quantity of objects in the missions.

[startrekmike]

I imagine that they will be doing some stuff to the engine to make it suit the needs of the title, I don't believe that they would release a product that just would not feel or work right (speaking of the combined team, not just one or the other, so we are clear).

We still know very little at this stage and I doubt they are gonna spend more than a year doing nothing but setting up WWII fighters to exist in ROF, that would make more trouble for them than it is worth.

I (personally) don't think this is going to be as bad as many here seem to think but it is still too early to know for sure.

Lets just wait and see.

[AbortedMan]

Regarding SEOW's ground campaign stuff (I'm not sure what you're specifically trying to point out as an example, I'm assuming controllable ground vehicles within CloD or something) I don't understand why you'd want to focus on controlling a set of ground vehicles when you're loading up a flight simulator. If you're into that stuff and it's very important to your simulator experience, you should probably stop looking in Cliffs of Dover's direction. I think DCS Combined Arms is more what you're looking for (http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.co...combined_arms/). Besides, how would it not be possible to upgrade the Digital Nature engine in a year's time to support threading and multi-core CPU instructions allowing a greater number of objects and scripting? The DN engine was made in what, 2008? And hasn't had a significant core upgrade opportunity (or reason) (aside from content additions) until now.

Yeah CloD engine was great in the scripting department, awesome, I agree. Does that make up for things it cannot do or does horribly? Do those great scripting opportunities present itself every day with the given community online or offline? No. I don't see anyone flocking to a vehicle ground war/scripted territory battle/control server on the Cliffs of Dover server list.

The clouds look absolutely gorgeous in the Digital Nature engine, btw. Have you seen em? Gorgeous.

Originally Posted by vranac

You must be blind if you don't see the difference between cartoonish dx9 engine
and advanced graphic engine in Clod.

You say "dx9" as if Direct3D9 is a horribly bad thing...do you even know what the differences between DX9 and DX10 are?

Take a look at this comparison from Crysis, this is the case in MANY other games:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYWhKUoz8ww

There is no discernible difference. Seriously.

In any case, look at this http://forum.il2sturmovik.net/index....ic=21#entry912

Just because a game is written for DX9, it hardly means it's incapable of today's graphic standards. I believe the correct "critique" aspect of Rise of Flight you're looking for is "art style" or "art direction". SweetFX fixed a lot of the color washout issues that made things look cartoony.

I explain all this to you with hopes to ease your worrying. I'm not saying you can only enjoy one or the other, of course both sims are good products...but Cliffs of Dover is no longer being supported, so its popularity is easily toppled by any other similar product being released. Don't expect Cliffs to entertain forever...and especially don't expect Rof, a 5 year old game (will be 6 when BoS releases), to be just repackaged and sold without some significant enhancements.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by AbortedMan

Regarding SEOW's ground campaign stuff (I'm not sure what you're specifically trying to point out as an example, I'm assuming controllable ground vehicles within CloD or something) I don't understand why you'd want to focus on controlling a set of ground vehicles when you're loading up a flight simulator. If you're into that stuff and it's very important to your simulator experience, you should probably stop looking in Cliffs of Dover's direction. I think DCS Combined Arms is more what you're looking for (http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.co...combined_arms/). Besides, how would it not be possible to upgrade the Digital Nature engine in a year's time to support threading and multi-core CPU instructions allowing a greater number of objects and scripting? The DN engine was made in what, 2008? And hasn't had a significant core upgrade opportunity (or reason) (aside from content additions) until now.

Yeah CloD engine was great in the scripting department, awesome, I agree. Does that make up for things it cannot do or does horribly? Do those great scripting opportunities present itself every day with the given community online or offline? No. I don't see anyone flocking to a vehicle ground war/scripted territory battle/control server on the Cliffs of Dover server list.

The clouds look absolutely gorgeous in the Digital Nature engine, btw. Have you seen em? Gorgeous.



You say "dx9" as if Direct3D9 is a horribly bad thing...do you even know what the differences between DX9 and DX10 are?

Take a look at this comparison from Crysis, this is the case in MANY other games:

There is no discernible difference. Seriously.

In any case, look at this http://forum.il2sturmovik.net/index....ic=21#entry912

Just because a game is written for DX9, it hardly means it's incapable of today's graphic standards. I believe the correct "critique" aspect of Rise of Flight you're looking for is "art style" or "art direction". SweetFX fixed a lot of the color washout issues that made things look cartoony.

I explain all this to you with hopes to ease your worrying. I'm not saying you can only enjoy one or the other, of course both sims are good products...but Cliffs of Dover is no longer being supported, so its popularity is easily toppled by any other similar product being released. Don't expect Cliffs to entertain forever...and especially don't expect Rof, a 5 year old game (will be 6 when BoS releases), to be just repackaged and sold without some significant enhancements.

HA finally someone point something out and then adds proof of what he is saying. Good show dude!

Prettier or not Clod wont be supported any longer except if it gets released to the community somehow, in that case Id take another look, but odds are, this one is going down in the books as a noble but failed cause.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Hey! I just had an epiphany! The feeling I’ve had since the ‘News’ Is just the same one I had when I came home from work and found out my wife had taken my pointer down to the vet and had him fixed!

Nothing I could do about it, but boy it felt bad! Poor dog hasn’t smiled since!

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Hey! I just had an epiphany! The feeling I’ve had since the ‘News’ Is just the same one I had when I came home from work and found out my wife had taken my pointer down to the vet and had him fixed!

Nothing I could do about it, but boy it felt bad! Poor dog hasn’t smiled since!

Same here, well not exactly the same but I have a sinking dealing at the demise of COD and I am quite angry at the treatment of Ilya and his MG colleagues by 1C.

Bunch of wankers!

6+ years of engine coding down the drain in order to make a quick buck back the easier way, I just hope Jason and Loft are up to the task or not even his army of adoring fans will stop my vengeance!

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Hey! I just had an epiphany! The feeling I’ve had since the ‘News’ Is just the same one I had when I came home from work and found out my wife had taken my pointer down to the vet and had him fixed!

Nothing I could do about it, but boy it felt bad! Poor dog hasn’t smiled since!

the only difference is your missus probably didn't stand in front of you holding the dogs jewels and looking at you smugly unlike the collective group of COD bashing ROF mob who are gloating right now.