Good news on future of BOM

[RPS69]

I suppose that someone is blaiming the whole clod delays on the big idea of making this not just a flight sim, but a full war engine.
Is the only logical explanation for so many exagerated details on ground objects.

In general, I swear I never got that clear view of a truck I'am straffing to see it's license plates!

On the other hand, ground objects movements have been almost unattended, and they trully worked fine on il2, with some problems, but with rational work arounds. On clod, is something that it is still beta.

I agree that on BoB ground objects are not very usefull except ships, that work far better than on il2, but are lacking a bit on the variety depatment.

Now, the flying is superb, so putting everything aside from what we started to see last patch, sounds like stupidity.

To recover this developement mess, they just need to follow one step at a time, and not start a whole new project from scratch. Last patch was excellent. They recovered some time, now they could work on the tools for campaigns developement. Games like Wot and similar got you tired a bit faster than il2, maybe they make more money on the concept, but they are abandoned sooner.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by RPS69

On the other hand, ground objects movements have been almost unattended, and they trully worked fine on il2, with some problems, but with rational work arounds. On clod, is something that it is still beta..

i think ground movement of ai vehicles and trains is already in a much more advanced state then many of us have realized.

there already are CoD users who have created some complex tank battles (with the winner gaining territory and advancing to engage the next objectives, or "capture" opponents airfields for ex), and (limited) user made major activations of features like having supply convoys on roads traveling to specific destinations, ambulances and fire trucks meeting damaged aircraft that land, having both rail and civilian buses running on pre-planned routes and making stops at stations, 1e person control of some ground vehicles or ships, 1e user control of AA guns on land or guns on ships, creation of a complex chain radar system with real time early warnings to flight crews etc...

no doubt it needs more work (and specifically a user interface, rather then having to edit files with code), but large elements are already there, and they were largely finished when oleg tried to assemble all these pre-completed elements in his last phase of creating a working beta product (when to his dismay the gfx engine turned out not to be up to scratch)

it would be one of the biggest acts of managerial stupidity to chuck all of that out for the sake of wanting a "simple flightsim"

[RPS69]

Originally Posted by zapatista

i think ground movement of ai vehicles and trains is already in a much more advanced state then many of us have realized.

I agree on the advantages opened by coding, but I was talking about objects plainly dissappearing on the ground, or tracking through buildings.

Maybe those are more object or map oriented bugs. Don't know for sure.

On the other hand, a sim with full interaction with ground objects, is a bit different from an all vehicle sim... the first you got reasonable behaviour on ground troops, and artillery. The other is more like a Battlefield scenario... well... it would be awesome! But have all that with the damage quality of airplanes in CloD, in all vehicles, and maybe humans... I think it is still a concept a bit too soon to be fully implemented.

I could bet money that when they started manning ground objects inside of CloD, they improved damage boxes to wheels, tracks, engines, fuel tanks, and ammo storage instantly.

I believe they allowed their imagination to fly too high, got a lot of fun doing it, but got completely out of time schedulles. I won't blame them, but someone allready had, for sure.

I think that we should encourage a money per fully working patch here. The game deserves it, and maybe it helps them to be more on the spot, without loosing the ability to fly high because of a low budget ceiling.

[Chivas]

Oleg's original plan was to build a complex game engine, for more than one use, not just air to air battles, but also designed to eventually have combined forces, and movie making features to be fleshed out slowly as the air series developed, then full throttle when all the air theaters were completed.

Aircraft were first implemented in wars to be a factor in the ground war, so it makes sense to build a game engine that could eventually add more complex ground war features. They tried to make "every" aspect of the game engine more complex, they obviously didn't think it would take this long, if they did, they would have just built the Battle of Britain on the old game engine. Personally I'm glad they made the decision to build a new game engine, and give kudos to the IC publishers for financing the develpment as long as they have.

[MadBlaster]

"Personally I'm glad they made the decision to build a new game engine, and give kudos to the IC publishers for financing the develpment as long as they have. "

dude gives kudos every damn day.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

"Personally I'm glad they made the decision to build a new game engine, and give kudos to the IC publishers for financing the develpment as long as they have. "

dude gives kudos every damn day.

Go back to beating your dog dude.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Chivas

Oleg's original plan was to build a complex game engine, for more than one use, not just air to air battles, but also designed to eventually have combined forces, and movie making features to be fleshed out slowly as the air series developed, then full throttle when all the air theaters were completed.

Aircraft were first implemented in wars to be a factor in the ground war, so it makes sense to build a game engine that could eventually add more complex ground war features. They tried to make "every" aspect of the game engine more complex,

yes, and many of us here wanted that grand vision of the SoW series to come to life, and the current CoD already gives a good indication of the many other elements that are included that are taking it beyond being "a simple flightsim". we dont want it to become a 1e person shooter, or a ship sim, but having some control over some ground vehicles and ships was a truly visionary leap forward that would really set the sim apart (and other developers are also working in that direction). we also need the dynamic campaign engine to let servers run 24/7, and a gradual implementation of the dynamic weather system etc

one of the most recent sukoi posts provided here by podvox however indicates that the "new manager" they are about to put in charge is appealing to the financiers because he is arguing for a "simple flightsim" (without many of the expanded elements oleg was working on) and that he will dumb down the whole SoW series.

to do this at a time when they just solved the main problem with CoD/BoM would be the largest act of managerial stupidity ever committed. it is not a problem if they halt further work on those elements, and reassess them in 6 or 12 months time after BoM is released, but to actually cut them out now and completely remove them for the sake of a few short term slaps on the back by the same senior managers who created the problem in the first place (by them not seeing that oleg as part time manager didnt control the project well enough) would be a total folly. what we need now id for BoM to be released soon with many further fixes of the old unfinished elements (like AI behavior and commands), and release a well rounded product that will regain 1C-SoW's reputation

for ex luthier indicated the AI aircraft routines and AI commands needed a total rewrite of the code which would take many months, and couldn't be sorted out with a short term quick fix. so will the new trabant-managers for the sake of simplicity also remove the elements like AI pilot experience and bravery elements that were built into the advanced AI routines by oleg ? will we end up with generic bland AI that has a uniform behavior and response ? i really hope not. similarly if the sim is currently designed to allow for some limited ground vehicle control (tank/trucks etc), why not leave that element in and let the community expand on it in its own way instead of removing it completely ? similarly if there is already a limited ability to control AA flak units or guns on tanks (we have seen screenshots of this), leave it in ffs and dont just remove it.

i really hope the russian users are as concerned about this as we are, or we'll end up with a bland dumbed down empty soulless world with a few pretty objects and a limited perpetual airquake scenario, what a waste that would be after all the hard work that was already put in all those previous years.

[CARTOON]

Originally Posted by zapatista

...without many of the expanded elements oleg was working on) and that he will dumb down the whole SoW series........i really hope the russian users are as concerned about this as we are, or we'll end up with a bland dumbed down empty soulless world with a few pretty objects and a limited perpetual airquake scenario, what a waste that would be after all the hard work that was already put in all those previous years.

Hi ! Sure we are discussing it there and the question rises - where is Oleg with his planes of " capturing the Galaxy" ?

p.s. on russian forum we guess it is going to be Battle of Stalingrad very likely and it is hot on our forum right now. We have read signs and something is certainely going to happen very soon. That was another gossips from the dumb troll )))

[JG52Krupi]

Cartoon!

Thanks for keeping us informed.

[klem]

Originally Posted by zapatista

yes, and many of us here wanted that grand vision of the SoW series to come to life, and the current CoD already gives a good indication of the many other elements that are included that are taking it beyond being "a simple flightsim". we dont want it to become a 1e person shooter, or a ship sim, but having some control over some ground vehicles and ships was a truly visionary leap forward that would really set the sim apart (and other developers are also working in that direction). we also need the dynamic campaign engine to let servers run 24/7, and a gradual implementation of the dynamic weather system etc

one of the most recent sukoi posts provided here by podvox however indicates that the "new manager" they are about to put in charge is appealing to the financiers because he is arguing for a "simple flightsim" (without many of the expanded elements oleg was working on) and that he will dumb down the whole SoW series.

to do this at a time when they just solved the main problem with CoD/BoM would be the largest act of managerial stupidity ever committed. it is not a problem if they halt further work on those elements, and reassess them in 6 or 12 months time after BoM is released, but to actually cut them out now and completely remove them for the sake of a few short term slaps on the back by the same senior managers who created the problem in the first place (by them not seeing that oleg as part time manager didnt control the project well enough) would be a total folly. what we need now id for BoM to be released soon with many further fixes of the old unfinished elements (like AI behavior and commands), and release a well rounded product that will regain 1C-SoW's reputation

for ex luthier indicated the AI aircraft routines and AI commands needed a total rewrite of the code which would take many months, and couldn't be sorted out with a short term quick fix. so will the new trabant-managers for the sake of simplicity also remove the elements like AI pilot experience and bravery elements that were built into the advanced AI routines by oleg ? will we end up with generic bland AI that has a uniform behavior and response ? i really hope not. similarly if the sim is currently designed to allow for some limited ground vehicle control (tank/trucks etc), why not leave that element in and let the community expand on it in its own way instead of removing it completely ? similarly if there is already a limited ability to control AA flak units or guns on tanks (we have seen screenshots of this), leave it in ffs and dont just remove it.

i really hope the russian users are as concerned about this as we are, or we'll end up with a bland dumbed down empty soulless world with a few pretty objects and a limited perpetual airquake scenario, what a waste that would be after all the hard work that was already put in all those previous years.

I agree it would be a travesty to dumb down the development plans and make it just another 'also ran' or 'me too' combat flight sim. It was always intended to take us forward, not stand still or even go backwards.

But are 1C listening? Are they even reading this, tucked away in the Pilots Lounge of a forum for a game they have already stepped away from? I doubt if they even come here now.

If they laid out their roadmap for SoW, even at top level with general scope, I think the community would go with it, at least knowing the plan. There doesn't even have to be a fixed timescale, just a declaration of intent. At the moment we are expecting 'the sequel', "CoD on the Eastern Front with some more fixes". What with that and the speculation on the sukhoi forum about a new manager its not surprising that we are sceptical about where the future lies. There isn't even a forum for games under development.

I do have to correct you on one poiint though zapatista, "having some control over some ground vehicles and ships was a truly visionary leap forward " is not a visionary leap forward at all. It has been in Aces High for over ten years. And it is a great addition.