fw 190a5 flight model

[MaxGunz]

You need to get numbers, record tracks, etc. Anything predictably so wrong should be recorded, analyzed, and presented with docs backing up the reasons. And then comes criticism without which you have only 1 opinion presented.. yours. Maybe someone changes their mind based on what all can see? It beats the Gaston game.

Do you know what speed you had after your turn? I've pulled some bleeders before, it's real easy to get too far inside and watch your speed go down fast. That's what practicing the tilted circle for, to teach you where the edge between just before stall is.

Make tracks so you can at least get alt/speed/etc, change the view around and see what happened more clearly.

I made tracks just to see where my shots were going and how my sight picture looked just before, my gunnery got better. Suddenly the DM's of enemy planes wasn't so tough as before.

Can you tell me the power to weight of these planes?

Can you tell me the clean stall speeds? What speed before each is no longer nose-high just to maintain alt, and what that means about acceleration? You may find a low speed zone where the FW should not do so well that no FW pilot in combat should ever get so slow.

Do you cross-control? That is using the joystick on diagonal. It makes more drag. Watch air racers, the move their sticks in + motions.

I shoot from long distance because if the target turns, I need turn much less to get a lead on his motion. I won't be able to keep that but I get my shot without losing much speed. Coming from a side, not 6, helps all that.

[JtD]

Given that at some altitudes the Spitfire climbs nearly twice as fast as the Fw 190, acceleration should also be nearly twice as good.

[MaxGunz]

Yes Freddy, bumpy air shakes planes. Safe speed is lower in bad weather.

You can probably survive a 25G impact FWIW.

That's momentary G's. Tell me about 12G turns because someone said they saw 12 on the G meter. That's cause he's twice as much as any ordinary man!

I remember the Army machinegunner who claimed that 50 cal bullets speed up after they leave the barrel. LOL, he should know, right?

[Herra Tohtori]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

Yes Freddy, bumpy air shakes planes. Safe speed is lower in bad weather.

You can probably survive a 25G impact FWIW.

That's momentary G's. Tell me about 12G turns because someone said they saw 12 on the G meter. That's cause he's twice as much as any ordinary man!

Transient lateral acceleration limits of humans vary from person to person and short spike of 12 g, I reckon it's possible but right about at the limit of human performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8i04jBLI5I

What's impressive is if they actually had the time to look at their g-load gauges, or if they had some sort of flight recording systems (like a small needle in the g-load gauge, pushed by the indicator needle and showing the highest peak force)?

How reliable were these g-load indicators?


Did Mustang pilots in Korea era use any sort of G-wear? When did G-pants and G-suits make their appearance?

Impact g-forces are very short duration and with the right equipment (appropriate harness) you can survive impressively high decelerations. Empirical test results have shown that human beings can survive at least 45 g's of deceleration in forward/backward axis and 35 g's in sideways acceleration. Lateral acceleration limits would probably be a bit lower due to the massive stress on the neck and the spine in general, and you'd most definitely lose consciousness due to lack of blood pressure, but again I expect with proper harness and head/neck support surviving lateral decelerations above 25 g's would be quite possible.

I remember the Army machinegunner who claimed that 50 cal bullets speed up after they leave the barrel. LOL, he should know, right?

This is exactly why anecdotes are such a reliable way of assembling a mental picture of the comparative performances of combat aircraft of 60 years ago.

[gaunt1]

Hi!

Im asking this because Im not an expert of german planes: Is the acceleration of the Fw 190 ingame is realistic or not? The plane is fast, but its short term acceleration looks quite weak. I shot down quite a few 190s even in a LaGG-3S4, he couldnt get away in time, the LaGG accelerated faster, sometimes even in a dive. So it is a bit suspicious for me. LaGG-3, especially early versions accelerated sluggishly. The 190 was really that bad IRL? Correct me if Im wrong, but as far as I know high wing loading means less drag in level flight, so plane should accelerate better.

[MaxGunz]

The answer depends on the speed, same as when the US ran a test condition competition and found the P-47 they had accelerated poorly up to a certain speed where it did the smack the head on the rest thing. With that plane, you learn that speed and don't go slower in combat.

It's about efficient air speeds for each plane, high wing loaded planes are inefficient at lower speeds to gain efficiency at higher speeds.

It's about induced drag as a percent of total drag. Until you can get your nose down, just staying aloft has a high price while at top speed it is 1% to 2% of the total. So you got to get to efficient speed before you can get your best acceleration. When another plane is already in that speed zone for his plane and you are not for yours, he may leave you behind.

Nobody pwns everywhere. When short test conclusions say at all speeds; read it to say all the speeds and conditions they tested, the ones that made sense to the testers at the time. That was AFDU, the tests would set up current combat conditions, the speeds appropriate.

You still need tracks to talk about specific online events. Impressions are not always right.

[TBear]

Some things just never stop.

What are the problem trying to create "realism" in a simulator.

1. Numbers is only 90% of it, the last 10% are pilot experience. Numbers cant me made for individual pilot skill. Any pilot fly hes way and even a test pilot is stil something you cant calculate with hard numbers.

2. History. As a sim pilot you have a huge benefit. You can read and learn both sides tactics and perfect any manouver. In those day you couldnt.

3. You dont die for real of a pilot mistake. You stall and crash, you just hit re-fly. They couldnt. You can fly any plane in the game at 110% percent. They couldnt. They had to stay as close to 95% as posible to make sure they got out of the flying alone alive. Put in some combat and a bad mechanic and you have death.

Remember this is a simulation, and that gives some problems to hit a RL experience mark. Some 109`s turned better than some allied planes. In many situations it didnt come down to some math numbers, but to the individual skills.

I bet you could take a combat pilot and let him fly a 190 and then a test pilot and you would end up with something that is max 80% identical.....the last 20% is darn important...even 5 different pilots would give 5 different sets of data....what pilot have the best day must then be the most acurate...

[gaunt1]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

The answer depends on the speed, same as when the US ran a test condition competition and found the P-47 they had accelerated poorly up to a certain speed where it did the smack the head on the rest thing. With that plane, you learn that speed and don't go slower in combat.

It's about efficient air speeds for each plane, high wing loaded planes are inefficient at lower speeds to gain efficiency at higher speeds.

It's about induced drag as a percent of total drag. Until you can get your nose down, just staying aloft has a high price while at top speed it is 1% to 2% of the total. So you got to get to efficient speed before you can get your best acceleration. When another plane is already in that speed zone for his plane and you are not for yours, he may leave you behind.

Nobody pwns everywhere. When short test conclusions say at all speeds; read it to say all the speeds and conditions they tested, the ones that made sense to the testers at the time. That was AFDU, the tests would set up current combat conditions, the speeds appropriate.

You still need tracks to talk about specific online events. Impressions are not always right.

Thanks for the explanation!

Now I understand why it was so easy to out-accelerate a 190 in a LaGG. It always occured between 250-350 km/h. So then the efficient air speed of the 190 is above 350 km/h.

[MaxGunz]

The 190 may be stepping the pace out before 350 even as the La 5 is farther along in his curve.