fw 190a5 flight model

[MaxGunz]

Originally Posted by JtD

It's important to note that the Fw 190A was noted to have very good acceleration and to for instance out accelerate a Spitfire IX (Merlin 61) under most conditions. Imo this can be attributed to the Kommandogerät, which allowed a quicker change of power settings, so the Fw 190 was already on it's way where the Spitfire was still getting the mixture right.

Was that the A-6 or the A-9 by any chance? Not the A-8 in full knight gear?

Most Antons I know of can match the top level speed of most Spits and spiral climb at the same time.

[JtD]

I think the comparison with the early Spitfire IX was most probably made with an A-4.

[Faustnik]

Is torque power a big difference if climb and acceleration with the Fw190A3 and Spit Vs and IXs?

(Looking at Farnborough July 1942 test)

Thanks!

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by JtD

I think the comparison with the early Spitfire IX was most probably made with an A-4.

it was an A3 (Fabers).

[Herra Tohtori]

Sounds very much like what we have in game.

The main discrepancy would be the climb rate and acceleration differences between Spitfires and FW-190 models. In IL-2, it feels that the Spitfire easily climbs and accelerates better than the FW-190. That report mentions that the FW-190 is more maneuverable - except in turning circles, and that applies to both Spit Vb and IX.

However, it's hard to determine whether the FW-190 A climbs/accelerates too slowly, or if the Spitfires tend to climb/accelerate faster than they should (I am slightly inclined to the latter). The problem is that there are certain aircraft in the game that seem to climb far better than you'd expect.

Bf-109 G-2 has much better rate of climb (and maneuverability and acceleration) compared to Bf-109 G-6, and it's pretty hard to remain convinced that the aircraft's weight would have grown quite that much from G2 to G6. Anecdotal evidence from Finnish Air Force pilots would indicate that the pilots did not feel much of a difference between the G-2 and G-6, but as a matter of principle I don't really put that much trust on anecdotes. However, as much as I can try to convince myself that in reality the pilots may not have noticed that much of a difference between G-2 and G-6 because they would have flown them both fully with energy tactics... the matter of fact remains that when I fly them with energy tactics in IL-2, there's a very noticeable difference in zoom climb performance and acceleration, as well as turning performance. And I can't help but think that if I can notice the differences, surely the Finnish Air Force pilots - arguably the best trained pilots in the world flying Bf-109 G-2 and G-6 both - would have noticed and reported the differences.

Then again it's possible that they were simply referring to the fact that both aircraft were operated the same way since they shared the same engine and same general flight characteristics, I don't know. Without talking to the pilots it's hard to know what they mean by fragments of interviews sometimes taken out of context.

Moving on; Spitfire Mk.IX 25lbs versions have incredible climb and acceleration compared to Spitfire Mk.IX 18lbs versions; In fact the jump from Mk.Vb 16lbs to Mk.IX 18lbs version is about the same as jump from Spifire Mk.IX 18lbs to Mk.IX 25lbs regarding climb performance, and I'm just not quite sure that the maximum engine thrust would have increased that much. I suppose it's possible, though.


This, if anything, is something that makes me wonder about the veracity of some flight models. I doubt some things I see in the simulation, and some flight models actually have obvious errors in them (although those tend to be AI planes made flyable with mods), but typically I see exaggerated differences between planes, rather than complete reversals in performance. Gaston's argument that the FW-190 A series planes would have had better sustained turn performance than Spitfires would be a reversal of the planes' relative turn performance, while the differences between G-2 and G-6 are more of an "exaggeration" in my estimation.

[JtD]

Thanks for the correction, fruitbat.

In game figures for climb for both the Fw 190 and the Spitfire are very close to real life performance. Actual test figures do not quite agree with the relative performance stated in the comparisons.

Take a fully loaded Merlin 61 Spitfire, climb it at 2850 rpm / 12 lb boost (100% power, 90% pitch iIrc) and compare it with a Fw 190A-4 fully rated at 75% fuel and 85% power. Both planes with radiators open. Historically, the British achieved a bit less than 13 m/s with the Fw 190 and a bit more than 16 m/s with the Spitfire at about 4000m altitude. Not sure how they got to "slightly better".

The 25lb boost models are conservative if anything, climb rates in excess of 25m/s in 2nd charger gear having been measured in two different tests, though I know little about the exact conditions of the test. The performance in game in accordance with a very well document RAE test. In a summary, the relative performance increase between 18 and 25 lb is stated to be 5m/s in climb, which again is pretty close to what we have in game.

G-2 and G-6 are off, though.

[Mabroc]

Well, Im not sure about climb rates, they seem OK, but the acceleration of the Spitfires in level flight is waaay too good. They can do a lot of crazy turns and evasives and then go to full speed in 5 seconds. Many times I crossed a Spitfire in a head on without guns blazing at each other in my Fw-190, so I keep extending on level flight, the Spit just hard turn 180 degress and is on my tail very close, if I dont even touch the rudder controls I can extend safely in 3 or 5 m (they usually break pursuit), minor movements drop my speed too much and the Spit close in.

And this is the norm online, a couple of weeks ago I was in a Fw-190D9 at 5km altitude, spotted a Spitfire heading away from me at 1km of altitude and maybe 3km of separation, I dived, reached max speed (plane stuttering) and close on him, he saw me and started a loose (not tight 180 turn) I followed it on my dive, he finalized the turn heading straight full throttle towards a Me-110 in a strike sortie, at that point I was on his 6 but I loosed a lot of speed in the turning dive AND HE WAS OUTRUNNING ME!!!! When I reach full speed and start to close in He already killed the Me-110 and I was still 1KM from him, all the energy on me planes was wasted in a slight turn BUT GREAT DIVE, and the plane accelerated to full speed in maybe 30 seconds, meanwhile the Spit was already at max speed around 20 or 25 earlier, so he got a good separation from me.

I have fighted every allied plane with the Me-109 and Fw-190 and no other plane seem to accelerate that good, not even the Yak-3, Yak-9U or La-7. So, when you are closing on him, if the spit pilot sees you, just need to turn a little to avoid your fire, and your only move is just extend away, dont even try to adjust your fire, if you miss, he is already at your 6 at max speed and you will die before can reach you max speed again.

[Sillius_Sodus]

I've never found the Antons to be great climbers. Nevertheless, they are fun to fly and I've had my a** handed to me often by a well flown 190, no matter how good my kite is supposed to be.