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[ATAG_Snapper]

Unfortunately, the RAF DM's above 10K are no match for the 109's they encounter with the bomber formations. The 109's ROC is several magnitudes greater even at a co-alt, co-e situation. Further, the 100 octane Spitfires will quickly burn out their engines if they try to match, must less overtake, a 109's climb above 10K. The Hurricane's Merlins have been modelled to be much less prone to overheating, their ROC above 10K is reportedly superior to the Spitfires, but they lack the raw speed of their 109 opponents.

Flying any of the RAF fighters against 109's above 10K is a sucker's game.

Below 10K the RAF fighters, as currently modelled, come into their own. The Spitfires still don't have the sustained ROC that 109's have, but they are well-matched in level speed with their 109 opponents. Their Hurricane counterparts are slightly slower at level speed, but their sustained ROC is better and below 10K can also give good account against co-alt, co-e 109 opponents in the right circumstances.

This is a huge factor why the RAF fighters in this sim stay low -- the Reds prefer to fight on equal terms.

[Kwiatek]

109 is joy to fly even with lower service celling expecially E-4 with auto prop. Spitfires still have engine bugs - e.x. Spitfire MK II doesnt match his RL engine power settings - i got a frequently engine blow using only 2800 RPMs ( RL climb power settings was 2850 RPMs at +9lbs for 1/2 hour).

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

109 is joy to fly even with lower service celling expecially E-4 with auto prop. Spitfires still have engine bugs - e.x. Spitfire MK II doesnt match his RL engine power settings - i got a frequently engine blow using only 2800 RPMs ( RL climb power settings was 2850 RPMs at +9lbs for 1/2 hour).

No its not. You now have more control with manual pitch in 109's... Also if you use wep with auto pitch it will accerelerate to a certain point but to go faster you have to reduce the throttle... I can't replicate this problem yet but its happened to me several times in combat. Plus is the auto pitch bug fixed yet?

[klem]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

Unfortunately, the RAF DM's above 10K are no match for the 109's they encounter with the bomber formations. The 109's ROC is several magnitudes greater even at a co-alt, co-e situation. Further, the 100 octane Spitfires will quickly burn out their engines if they try to match, must less overtake, a 109's climb above 10K. The Hurricane's Merlins have been modelled to be much less prone to overheating, their ROC above 10K is reportedly superior to the Spitfires, but they lack the raw speed of their 109 opponents.

Flying any of the RAF fighters against 109's above 10K is a sucker's game.

Below 10K the RAF fighters, as currently modelled, come into their own. The Spitfires still don't have the sustained ROC that 109's have, but they are well-matched in level speed with their 109 opponents. Their Hurricane counterparts are slightly slower at level speed, but their sustained ROC is better and below 10K can also give good account against co-alt, co-e 109 opponents in the right circumstances.

This is a huge factor why the RAF fighters in this sim stay low -- the Reds prefer to fight on equal terms.

This is one of our main problems and many of the bombing raids seem to be higher now, at least in some maps. They used to be typically 13000 feet but some are now 15000. One of our squadmates who stayed away until this official patch came out was steaming about it and he has a point. There's no point in trying to be 'historical' if we don't have historical a/c performance. Its a great way to finally send the undecided players away from CoD
and he may become one of them.

Poor a/c performance is not ATAG's fault but perhaps you could give some consideration to more performance 'balance'. It's a frustrating struggle climbing up to 15000 feet, juggling with reduced rpm and boost, in an aircraft that is supposed to make twice that height.

[ATAG_Snapper]

TBH Klem, I feel much worse for those of us who chose NOT to stay away but refused to give up and persevered, only to be badly disappointed with the final FM outcome.

One of our new forum members is in the process of developing data sheets for each of the C0D aircraft. He's been plugging in the aircraft specs, then getting our input to modify them to CoD-specific. He has the Spitfire 2a listed at 450 mph IAS max speed per spec. To me, this seemed a little high based on my own experience flying the virtual 2a in CoD. Earlier today I took a CoD Spitfire 2a on our ATAG server to 20 angels, levelled out, coarsened prop pitch to bring rpms down to 2200, then gently bunted over into a 45 degree dive. Sure enough, at 430 IAS (captured on FRAPS), the wings flew off at 430 IAS (= 672 kmh IAS). Oops. Compare that to the CoD 109's Vmax of 750 kmh IAS and it's easy to see why a Spit pilot in CoD would be foolish to follow a 109 in a dive. Not historic, but that's Cliffs of Dover.

https://vimeo.com/52493047

Changes in mission design are ongoing, with certain adjustments made to effect better gameplay. I can't personally say if bomber formations will be dropped down to 5 angels to effect fairer gameplay above, co-alt, and below for both side's fighters, nor am I sure that I'd want to see the elimination of high formations. But we've had low AI formations already on ATAG, to mixed reviews from Blue and Red pilots.

There's no pleasing everyone....be sure. The best thing is to mix it up a bit so there's something for everyone at some point.

[klem]

All true.

What do you think would happen if most RAF bomber missions were removed? Do you think they are a distraction for the 109s from the job of escorting and sweeping?

It would be interesting to try one map where the 109s have nothing to do except escort and sweep. No RAF bombers and massive AAA to stop vulching.

Of course that might empty the server of Blues, perhaps our best bet is the occasional SOWC for that 'BoB' feel.

[notafinger!]

Originally Posted by klem

All true.

What do you think would happen if most RAF bomber missions were removed? Do you think they are a distraction for the 109s from the job of escorting and sweeping?

It would be interesting to try one map where the 109s have nothing to do except escort and sweep. No RAF bombers and massive AAA to stop vulching.

Of course that might empty the server of Blues, perhaps our best bet is the occasional SOWC for that 'BoB' feel.

Klem,

From a blue perspective there are several problems with escorting the bombers on ATAG.

For starters there are too many different AI flights at one time. There is a mission where blue AI waves come over every 30 minutes or so which leads to us covering one group while we see server messages about a different group being slaughtered. You simply don't have enough time to cover a wave then return to base to rearm/refuel and cover the next wave. It leads to cheap easy kills for red pilots. That gets frustrating and you stop caring about them.

Then there is a problem where they go on a tour of England after bombing their targets. We end up following them way out over the sea north of Manston or way west past Dungeness only to have them turn around and fly back up the coast towards Hawkinge. Why don't they bomb and get the hell out of there? Again, as an escort this gets frustrating and you stop caring.

Finally, there is the issue of Hawkinge and other forward airbases. Most blues know it's easier to just vulch those bases then to bother with the objectives or escorting bombers. Rather than intensify AAA, which is bad enough as it is, the red bases should be moved to the rear (Eastchurch, Biggin Hill, Gravesend, etc). This removes the temptation of the coastal airbases and would probably push more people to do the objectives but would displease the airquake crowd.

Really there is only so much you can expect from a public game and like you said SOWC is geared more to the historical crowd and we plan on hosting more events in the future.

[klem]

Thanks notafinger,

I understand. I'm forced to the conclusion that its just not possible to expect 'The BoB' on a public server. Even in SOWC the servers just can't handle large numbers so its very limited and I think that's the only reason I'd be interested in a MMO. I was raised, 'virtually', on Air Warrior and Aces High where you could expect 300-400 players in a big scenario run over several weekends.

Ah, the ol' days.

[ATAG_Colander]

Custom skins "enabled" in server 1
More information Here

[ATAG_Colander]

All,

Please take a look at this thread.

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...-Skins-on-ATAG