A potential fix for the Aircraft visibility problems?

[Blennydude]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

Try watching my track file up above. If the dot disappears, then maybe it is in your system some where.

I watched your track. The text, as well as the actual aircraft "dot", is visible all the time; from the starting distance (about 1.20 or so), down to .80, where you slow down, and then up to around 5.30, where the text is no longer readable on my resolution - but I estimate it stays there up to 5.60 or so.

Then, I watched the track again, this time with MeshShowLod=1. This yielded the exact same result; the plane as well as the text remained visible all the time. Exactly the same, with no newly introduced stutters or so.

Meanwhile, on ATAG, I searched in vain for a 14-plane Ju88 formation, as advertised by "Chain Home" - nothing, except for a few flak puffs.
Then, I got shot down over France in the usual manner - Bang, Bang, critical dmg, Pilot dead - and after pressing Alt+F2, I was able to see the corresponding Me109 for the first time...
This must've been a happy time for the Me - Pilot

So I'm still at a loss and still begging for help!


P.S.: That other file, "confs.ini" in the Documents/1C.../il-2 sturmovik.../ folder has an option, under [core], called "LinearObjectManager(=1)". Could this be relevant in any way?

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Blennydude

I watched your track. The text, as well as the actual aircraft "dot", is visible all the time; from the starting distance (about 1.20 or so), down to .80, where you slow down, and then up to around 5.30, where the text is no longer readable on my resolution - but I estimate it stays there up to 5.60 or so.

Then, I watched the track again, this time with MeshShowLod=1. This yielded the exact same result; the plane as well as the text remained visible all the time. Exactly the same, with no newly introduced stutters or so.

Meanwhile, on ATAG, I searched in vain for a 14-plane Ju88 formation, as advertised by "Chain Home" - nothing, except for a few flak puffs.
Then, I got shot down over France in the usual manner - Bang, Bang, critical dmg, Pilot dead - and after pressing Alt+F2, I was able to see the corresponding Me109 for the first time...
This must've been a happy time for the Me - Pilot

So I'm still at a loss and still begging for help!


P.S.: That other file, "confs.ini" in the Documents/1C.../il-2 sturmovik.../ folder has an option, under [core], called "LinearObjectManager(=1)". Could this be relevant in any way?

That's the thing the dot is there, people including my self will at time's loose track of it. Partly luck, but mostly looking in the right spot is the key. It really is a developed skill over a period of time. For myself I try to not take my eyes off of it, and to determine his heading. Many times if you loose it, look where it should be. If he spotted you, why then he could be anywhere trying to get on your six.

[Wolf_Rider]

A possible recreation attempt??

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/blindspot1.html

[Blennydude]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

That's the thing the dot is there, people including my self will at time's loose track of it. Partly luck, but mostly looking in the right spot is the key. It really is a developed skill over a period of time. For myself I try to not take my eyes off of it, and to determine his heading. Many times if you loose it, look where it should be. If he spotted you, why then he could be anywhere trying to get on your six.

Hmm I don't really understand your answer. But if you're suggesting that I'm not looking hard enough, I am 100% positive that this is not the case. There's just no way. As I have written, planes which should be VERY close, also elude me... (yes, I check my six regularly).

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Blennydude

Hmm I don't really understand your answer. But if you're suggesting that I'm not looking hard enough, I am 100% positive that this is not the case. There's just no way. As I have written, planes which should be VERY close, also elude me... (yes, I check my six regularly).

You were able to track my dot in the file, so I cannot say why you continue to have a problem. I hope that you find a cure

[David198502]

ok meanwhile we tested on more systems, and it seems that three things are important to get rid of the disappearing bug...
resolution
model details
FOV

if you fly with a low resolution, use medium or low model detail settings and use a FOV higher than 70° you will be able to "create" a really big range where contacts totally disappear...

[SQB]

Holy hell, so I just jumped in singleplayer to test the colour modifications and... decided to play around a little.


What I found shocked me, there doesn't seem to be *a dot* anymore, for aircraft. Instead we are literally looking at the pixel that is the aircraft, when it was meant to have a dot, like ground forces. This dot literally does not exist. Because of this, the shape and size of the aircraft is paramount, at certain angles an easily visible aircraft becomes invisible and so on and so forth. The worst places is actually near the horizon, because aircraft so often fly straight and level.

I have video evidence (plain as day), but I don't know my way around video editing programs. If anybody could give me a quick how to it would be much appreciated. In the mean time I will build some .gifs, which I know how to make.


EDIT: OH, I almost forgot. Everyone post your settings (conf.ini) here. I'll sort through them and see if any of them actually work! First off, I'll try defaults but showmeshlod=1.

[IvanK]

I agree. In the little experimentation I have done with InjectFX first contact ranges have increased dramatically ... unnaturally so. Aircraft at long range appear as a stark black pixel. To me they are of fixed dimension too. They dont seem to start as a tiny pin prick then slowly grow.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by David198502

ok meanwhile we tested on more systems, and it seems that three things are important to get rid of the disappearing bug...
- resolution
- model details
- FOV

if you fly with a low resolution, use medium or low model detail settings and use a FOV higher than 70° you will be able to "create" a really big range where contacts totally disappear...

i think you are on the right track there, but we need to first differentiate what all the different people mean by "having trouble seeing/tracking" aircraft, and from peoples comments in this thread we have a few different issues involved
1) how well people can see distant aircraft dots or the smallest CoD LoD models in the far distance (against open sky or terrain background): lcd display technology is a factor there (TN monitors doing significantly better), but the small dots and smallest LoD models are NOT visible enough against terrain background for most players (due to the flat 2D nature of current monitor displays, it all blends together to much)
2) how well people can see medium distance LoD models: this is i believe the OP's main topic, and he suggests the LoD models need some form of visual enhancement. similar issues as point 1, TN screens have an advantage but their visibility is generally under-modeled compared to visibility in real life from a real aircraft
3) some people stating aircraft in the medium distance can suddenly become invisible (either a LoD model programing error for some planes, or other issue)

for any of these visibility issues, to compare apples with apples it is critical players standardize as much as possible what we are looking at, and how it is displayed:
- monitors need to be set to the correct FoV for their monitor size and distance they sit from it, only then will we know how good/bad CoD is recreating the distant aircraft visibility
- monitors should be set to their native resolutions,
- have object/model detail set to high if possible (but it is well possible that lower detail settings for buildings and aircraft makes them easier to spot/track ?)

for those who havnt considered how to find their "correct FoV" setting (which in the il2 series could then be bound to the "normal" view key (allowing them to see all in-game objects in their correct 1:1 sizes, and hence giving in theory correct visibility for distant objects), with an additional "wide view" (90) that could be briefly used for increasing SA during a dogfight for ex (but shrinks all in-game objects significantly, making them much harder to spot), and a "zoomed view" (35) which is like strapping on a set of binoculars (with tunnel vision) and hence significantly magnifies everything you look at

how to find what is your own personal "normal FoV" for il2/CoD

your "normal" il2 CoD FoV = {arctan [ (horz size monitor/2) / monitor distance ] } x2

for ex, for my 27' screen (58 cm wide), which during il2 gaming i have from my eyes at a distance of 60 cm (note, dont mix metric and imperial, mind your decimal places, and make sure you use how wide your monitor display area is not the diagonal measurement !), this would mean for me:

{arctan [ (0.58 / 2) / 0.60 ] } x2
{arctan [ 0.29 / 0.60 ] } x2
{arctan [ 0.4833 ] } x2
{ 25.796 } x 2
= 51.592

so for me, with my monitor size and sitting at that viewing distance, my "normal FoV" in il2/CoD should be set at 50. and only then will i, or should i, be able to see objects in their correct sizes for the distance they are from me. if I however use a wider then normal FoV (for ex the default "normal" right now in CoD is 70 FoV), then the distant objects will shrink significantly, and my visibility of them will significantly reduce (because now i am seeing LoD model 8 for ex instead of LoD model 5 which is significantly larger)

and my observation, and most il2 series users, was that in the il2 series visibility of these distant aircraft LoD models (against terrain background) was about 1/2 to 1/3 of what it should be in real life, eg instead of for ex overflying fields and roads at 1200 meters and spotting individual tanks or trucks (or parked single engine aircraft at an airfield), you needed to be at 300 meters in this game ! in effect in the il2 series we were flying around in a "mini SA bubble", which didnt SIMULATE a real ww2 pilot experience

from my experience so far in CoD, we are again dealing with similar visibility issues, and as the OP suggested, we need to find some way to get this across to luthier and then get him to adjust the distant LoD model visibility so it makes up for the problem that the gfx engine might well model the distant object correctly in size, but it doesnt stand out as well as a similar object would in real life (on a pc display with current technology the 2D Lod model blends in to much with the flat 2D landscape being displayed

note: currently in CoD as far as i know we can only set our FoV to the 3 preset values they included, and despite numerous requests during the beta patches to provide us with the 5 degree incremental settings we had in il-1946 (where you could set it at steps of 5 degrees from 35 to 90), we are still stuck with this. (note, for most people with mid size monitors they can use the 70 setting and sit closer to their monitors to correct for the excessively high FoV. using the 35 FoV setting is not a valid option however since it works like using a fair of binoculars in the game, and provides significant magnification and cant be used as a "normal" comparison). one forum member (ataros) suggested that the kegetis mod tool allows you to set a specific FoV but i havnt tried it yet (and might not be compatible online ?) (see http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...=multi+monitor ). several people tried to edit the CoD files to alter the FoV setting directly, but no luck so far. setting the "correct FoV" is however critical to determine how good/bad visibility is currently in CoD. because with most people flying around with incorrect FoV settings, we cant be trying to compensate with a distorted visibility setup, we need to compare what is a "normal" setting in the sim, and then see how this compares to similar real life situations.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by SQB

Well, I think I've found the problem. There's a gap between the fade out range (where the model of the aircraft disappears) and where the dot comes in. This is why FOV appears to make a difference (which LOD to use is a product of distance and FOV). To change this... setting the LOD to run out to infinity (meshshowlod=1) will do the trick, but you'll kill your computer. If I knew what lines changed things I would make it so the dot appears on any aircraft at any distance, it's still to have it come in at a certain range.

interesting

why dont you try the same observation but with your monitor set to the correct FoV ? (without using the "meshshowlod" hack)

i strongly suspect that "gap" does not exist (but if it does exist, it obviously would be a coding error or absence of the smallest LoD models for ex)