King’s Bounty: Warriors of the North Release Date Announced / Pre-Order Available

[Sir Whiskers]

Originally Posted by Mygaffer

While I love Steam and have over 300 games in my Steam account I think people resent having their only option to play the game be tied to a Steam account.

MG, thanks for your thoughtful post. I am one of the folks you refer to. I have never purchased (leased?) a title from Steam and doubt I ever will, for various reasons. I certainly understand that many customers have had a good experience with them, but I'm not willing to purchase from them, given their current business model.

Originally Posted by Mygaffer

while I own The Legend and Crossworlds on Steam I also bought a second copy on GOG.com of The Legend because it was a DRM-free installer. That is something us PAYING customers value, pirates don't care what DRM you use. I would likely purchase a copy of KB:WotN from other services that do not have the Steamworks DRM, such as Impulse.


So not only have I bought a second copy from GOG.com but if you would also release Crossworlds on GOG.com I would buy it in a second. Literally, I will spend the money all over again to have the game DRM free even though I use and enjoy Steam.

I purchased my original copy of KB:CW from Impulse and a second copy of KB:TL from GOG, primarily so I don't have keep the original CD-ROM in my computer. I would happily purchase KB:WotN from Impulse, if offered. I have no issue with activation limits, so long as I can recover them by uninstalling the game - it's the other DRM/Steam issues I choose not to accept. And I likely would purchase a backup via GOG, if KB:CW or KB:WotN are offered there.

I certainly understand why developers are concerned enough about piracy - especially when a game is first released - to want a DRM option. But as a buyer, I choose to opt out of such games. If 1C releases the game later without DRM, I'll snap it up. Unfortunately, that means I have to wait, and 1C will likely get less money from me (later releases are usually discounted), but that's the company's option. They aren't doing anything wrong by offering only Steamworks, but they are limiting their pool of potential customers.

To those who do get the game - enjoy!

[Sneaksie]

Steamworks isn't a DRM, it is a bigger thing like framework. It contains Steam DRM, but much more importantly it allows achievements, leaderboard, storing saves in the cloud, that kind of stuff.

Steam DRM is actually one of the less intrusive DRM solutions available now. We decided not to add any third-party DRM like Tages, Proactive or one of others to the game (some titles on Steam have a third-party DRM and some don't), so if you're anti-DRM you can be assured we're not trying to limit a freedom of legitimate buyers while trying to minimize piracy.

As it was already mentioned many times, after installing a Steam game and running it you can switch Steam to offline mode and you won't need to connect to Internet to play. Of course achievements and other online features like cloud stuff won't work, but you'll be able to play the game wherever you want, on a laptop in a middle of a forest if you'd like to. Personally I find this cloud saving very convenient, you can play on different PCs and have your progress synchronized. Of course Steam also means automatically delivered updates so don't forget to connect to Internet sometimes to make sure you won't miss them

[Dwagginz]

Steam is third-party DRM, and it's about as intrusive as a bulldozer knocking down one of your walls. First-party DRM is, say, Ubisoft's UPlay system.

And the offline mode is, as far as I remember, about as stable as... something very unstable. The automatic updates also mean you're stuck (as in STUCK) if an update breaks the game because you can't roll back, you can't choose your version and so on. You're giving up your freedom for features that you might not ever use (I've got Cloud Saves turned off because it's malfunctioned before and I almost lost 10-20hrs of progress on Saints Row the Third, not to mention the issues Dungeons of Dredmor appears to have with Steam Cloud at times).

It's probably the most "acceptable" form of DRM behind single-activation/online-activation SecuROM, but it's not exactly the Holy Grail of Content Protection.

[Ragnin]

Originally Posted by Dwagginz

And the offline mode is, as far as I remember, about as stable as... something very unstable. The automatic updates also mean you're stuck (as in STUCK) if an update breaks the game because you can't roll back, you can't choose your version and so on.

I had problems with the auto update thing as well when Skyrim would release a new major patch and suddenly my game crashes ever 10 mins. No way to roll back and now way to install the previous stable version by reinstalling it. Have to wait days or weeks for either a fan fix or another update and hope it fix's it. That was very frustrating. I also really dislike their refusal to give refunds on games that are completely broken but that's more personal.
Mostly I can not stand having to have another program have to launch and be running just to play a different one. It eats resources and as minor as it is I really don't like having to wait several second or mins to start my game because a different program has to update, or realize there is no internet and so have to restart in offline mode. Many of these things are minor but there is enough of them that unless a game is really good I'll just pass or wait.

So while I really wish I could buy this game I'll pass, If a gog.com version comes out I'll buy that right off. Same if a gog version of Crossworlds comes out. Until then I'll wait.

[Dwagginz]

Could be wrong, but can't you only start Steam's offline mode if you're online?

[saroumana]

You can disable auto-update on steam, so what the problem ? Also you can ask to a refund if the game don't work.

The only problem with steam is the price : they're more expensible than other platform.

[Dwagginz]

Originally Posted by saroumana

You can disable auto-update on steam, so what the problem ? Also you can ask to a refund if the game don't work.

Extremely unreliable - there are reports of games forcing you to update them even if you have updates turned off. And no, not really. Aside from extreme circumstances, the only time you'll ever get a refund from Steam is when you cancel a pre-purchase before release. I've tried getting refunds for broken games, and it just isn't possible. They might do it once or twice per account, but on the whole? No, Steam don't do refunds.

Originally Posted by saroumana

The only problem with steam is the price : they're more expensible than other platform.

That depends on your location. As someone in the UK, Steam can be more expensive than Origin or GamersGate, but there are games on GOG that cost more than their Steam versions or ones on GamersGate that are more expensive than those on Steam. Prices vary between retailers.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by saroumana

Also you can ask to a refund if the game don't work.

In addition to what Dwagginz said: What about the games you bought as Retails form other publishers than Steam and that have to updated via Steam. Do you really think that Steam will refund this? Or any other seller where you bought the game, months before?

Steam might be a good thing in a lot of cases, but can be a pain under certain circumstances (mostly when third parties (publisher, etc.) who use Steamworks) are involved).

Greetz

J.B.

[Ragnin]

Originally Posted by saroumana

You can disable auto-update on steam, so what the problem ? Also you can ask to a refund if the game don't work.

I did disable the auto-updates and as Dwagginz pointed out it still forced updates on me. And there is still the problem of not being able to reinstall and choose which version i want.

And no they do not give refunds easily if at all. I bought a game from that was on sale for only $4. The game would not start at all, not on my nice computer, not on my older laptop. Both beat the min and recommend specs for the game but I could not get it to launch on either computer. I go and look at the forum's and see that a lot of people have the problem. I ask steam for a refund and they refuse, nothing I said would get me a refund. I also hate that I have to ask for everything via email with them because they don't want to have a call center. So then even simple things takes several days of email exchange to try to solve. Or if they do have a number its buried and not easy to find.

As for price I'm in the US so tend to be about the same as other places. I mostly used them for their sales.

I will point out that I generally have no problems running games with steamworks overall. If I receive a game code for steam as a gift I'll use it and play the game still. Other then the patching and refund thing most of my gripes with them are minor. I just don't feel like I should have to put up with all those things in order to play a game I paid for. I don't care about achievements, leaderboards or any of that other stuff so it's not worth it for me to have to put up with Steam just to get those things. And since this game has to compete with other games for my limited amount of money I do factor in the fact it has steamworks as a negative against it and so will end up buying something else that won't have it. Such as Torchlight 2 or Divinity 2 Directors Edition from gog (my second copy of divinity 2 because I wanted one with out a DRM).

[mbpopolano24]

Originally Posted by Dwagginz

Could be wrong, but can't you only start Steam's offline mode if you're online?

Correct. You can ONLY start offline if you did it while in online mode. So if you lose connection and forgot to go offline, well, you can't play.

Also, all very true about waiting time, forced updates that can ruin your game (same happened to me for Fallout NV after 50 hours playing, an update broke it for me and I was not able to play again for weeks, until a FAN-made fix came out...)

Look, I understand why some people like Steam and do not understand these problems. I sometimes can use a very fast, ALWAYS online connection and I don't even notice Steam. Everything is quick, fast, smooth.

But to play I have to use a very slow and unreliable connection most of the times, and then my life become very complicated. I play to enjoy life, not to have even more problems and frustration.

In sum, I adore this series, played them all and loved them all, and I have always pre-order and played full price to support them. But this move to Steam only is just... wrong.

Developers need to get in their head the NO DRM works. Most people are honest, and will support their game. Pirates will steal their game anyway. Look what’s happening in Kickstartert and GOG. I love GOG, I snatch every good game from there even if I have already a copy. You can save your digital copy and install it anywhere, anytime, no problems.