Thinking about a Community Patch

[major_setback]

Originally Posted by SiThSpAwN

I didnt think that improvements from the sequel will be ported over to CLoD, least thats how I have been reading things... I could be wrong of course...

I was unclear.
I meant that global improvements to the merged version would affect CoD as a part of the merged CoD/BoM.

Any aircraft, flight model, AI improvement can come in the future. As Luthier said, until now all time has gone to sorting out glitches. Next, the improvement of the game can begin.

luthier:
Your general criticism is spot on. We shipped a product that had too many technical issues for us to really focus on finer elements of gameplay. There had never been a point, we're not even there today, where we could sit back, look at the code, and say, hell, what a great foundation, let's build a great game on top of it.

[Sandstone]

Originally Posted by major_setback

...Luthier never said that skin weathering would never be addressed, just that he thought it wasn't 'terrible'. I'm sure gameplay, weathering (permanent heavy weathering on British fighters) and lots of the other present issues (bridges, wave height, AI tactics, AI response, clouds) will be resolved in good time...The map/maps we will be able to edit when the planned user tools become available, and Luthier has definitely not abandoned the development of these.

What, as you see it, are the specific failings of CoD that can't be resolved after the merge?

Given the performance of 1C so far, I really don't think it's realistic to expect that we will ever see the weathering corrected or map-editing tools released. It's just not going to happen. The AI might get improved, but Luthier doesn't even seem to think it's a problem as it is now, so I can't see that happening for several years at an absolute minimum.

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by major_setback

What exactly is it that you miss?
As I understand it CoD will be updated when the sequel comes out, and from then on improvements will continue that affect that merged version of the game.

No need to take that tone.

The Sequel is years away. In the meantime creative members of the community might like to explore ways of adding a few small fixes, optimisations or improvements.

FM changes and new 3D may not be a realistic goal at this time, but smaller fixes are well within our reach. Trees can be tweaked for colour and performance (2048x textures seems a bit much). Spelling errors in German cockpits can be corrected. Landscape textures can be easily worked on. Sounds can be altered. GUI could be reskinned. Clouds can be tweaked etc. the list goes on.

When the Sequel comes out (2014 if they remain on schedule, 2015 or beyond if they do not) then we can drop the mods and enjoy a brand new merged or standalone game.

[major_setback]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

No need to take that tone.

The Sequel is years away. In the meantime creative members of the community might like to explore ways of adding a few small fixes, optimisations or improvements.

FM changes and new 3D may not be a realistic goal at this time, but smaller fixes are well within our reach. Trees can be tweaked for colour and performance (2048x textures seems a bit much). Spelling errors in German cockpits can be corrected. Landscape textures can be easily worked on. Sounds can be altered. GUI could be reskinned. Clouds can be tweaked etc. the list goes on.

When the Sequel comes out (2014 if they remain on schedule, 2015 or beyond if they do not) then we can drop the mods and enjoy a brand new merged or standalone game.

I honestly did not intend to imply anything. No 'tone' was intended. I was genuinely curious as to how you were thinking.

Hopefully, with this latest Beta patch being ok, (as it seems a the moment) development will move a lot quicker than it has until now, with everything being held up by bug searching.

I would like to state for the record that I don't think BoM will be a magic fix. I remember that couldn't even run Pacific Fighters when that first came out as the next part in the Forgotten battles series. On the whole everything turned out well in the long run. And I will stay around this time too, hoping it will be kept alive long enough for that to happen.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by major_setback

I honestly did not intend to imply anything. No 'tone' was intended. I was genuinely curious as to how you were thinking...
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Ah, no worries mate. My mistake then. I think after swimming with sharks here for so long, one expects to get bitten at every turn.

[the Dutchman]

I really don't think that the investors, 1c, or luthier want people playing with the code...you mention AAA and the early days, I think 1c never admired the behavior of a few who took it upon themselves.

The investors?
That's us!

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by the Dutchman

The investors?
That's us!

We are a minor investor at the moment. The real investors have spent millions so far funding the development. COD sales didn't even come close to covering those costs and providing a profit. It appears the investors are willing to keep the development in business atleast until the Sequel is released. Hopefully the Sequel will be good enough to give the investors some return, but I think the development has taken so long that there will have to be a number of Sequels sold before the investors start seeing any substantial return on their dollar. The announcement, whenever that happens should give us a better idea of their future plans. I'm sure they've had endless meetings trying to figure ways to make a profit as soon as possible, and know the only way its going to happen is fixing the new game engine for use in a number of different venues, like maybe MMO's, along with Sequels, etc. Time will tell. Hopefully there is a future.

[banned]

Originally Posted by Chivas

We are a minor investor at the moment. The real investors have spent millions so far funding the development. COD sales didn't even come close to covering those costs and providing a profit. It appears the investors are willing to keep the development in business atleast until the Sequel is released. Hopefully the Sequel will be good enough to give the investors some return, but I think the development has taken so long that there will have to be a number of Sequels sold before the investors start seeing any substantial return on their dollar. The announcement, whenever that happens should give us a better idea of their future plans. I'm sure they've had endless meetings trying to figure ways to make a profit as soon as possible, and know the only way its going to happen is fixing the new game engine for use in a number of different venues, like maybe MMO's, along with Sequels, etc. Time will tell. Hopefully there is a future.

Chivas, do you have the exact numbers, or know where they are written, that stipulates the total cost of the Clod project compared to the returns made? I can't find anything precise on either figure.
Kind Regards

[kendo65]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

...

The interesting bit was when I considered that the files in front of me were for the latest version of the game. What If I rolled back the previous patch and made a dump of that version and compared the differences? What if I did the same for the ones before that, or the V1 Collectors Edition?

Maybe it would be possible to pull some of the best bits out of each version and make a sort of compilation mod. Get the decent looking Spit's weathering layer from the early build and use it instead of the messy current one for example. Extract the earlier landshading files and use them instead. Tweak the tree textures, fix the dust particles, revert to a Hurricane FM that will start up...

There are a lot of things we can do. The files are right there in the open once you extract them. Nothing much seems hashed or encrypted and just about everything can be opened in notepad. It would be baby steps at first, but those who were around during the early days of Il-2 modding at AAA would remember how things started out. It was an exciting time, exchanging ideas and techniques. Learning about the game and how it all worked.

Anyone with experience in modding work, I'd urge you to take a look inside Cliffs Of Dover. There is a lot to see. If anyone can recall elements of previous patches or versions that had things that were working nicely and are now busted... maybe speak up and link to the patch in question. Maybe we can fix things after all!

I'm really not sure that it would be as easy as a simple 'mix and match' strategy. There are likely to be dependencies between files of a particular version that will break the game if replaced by those from a different version.

It may be possible to do some simple things but it could turn into a Frankenstein's monster situation.

Also, as for il-2 mods, getting agreement from the community as a whole that a particular change is an improvement could be difficult.

Overall I'm not really in favour.

Luthier has said that the FMs will continue to be worked on until they're good enough, and when the map sdk is released then there should be big improvements made to the main map.

Originally Posted by SiThSpAwN

I didnt think that improvements from the sequel will be ported over to CLoD, least thats how I have been reading things... I could be wrong of course...

No, they will - things like weather, AI improvements, Comms, etc, etc.

[David198502]

where are the FM files, and how can one open them???
i dont want to change them, but only have a look and see if they can reveal some answers on questions Luthier and the team dont think its necessary to comment.