Thoughts about Friday's update

[Mysticpuma]

Originally Posted by BlackSix "This is my fault. I should collect 5-10 old questions and send them to Ilya. But I made new threads and I collected over 200 questions. I don't know when he'll find time for this."

Honestly B6 if that's the best that can be done it's just opening this thread up to the harbingers of doom. Sadly I believe I have become one

You offered us after (MANY) months the chance to actual actually get answers to the many issues that have been raised. The community again was sparked into life! At-last, a chance to get some actual, proper input from the devs.

What do we get! No answers, too many questions!

Seriously?

The only issue is that this whole fiascoof disrespect for those who really love the IL2 series who again were lured into thinking that we we important to the devs, feel again that we have been lined up for a practical joke!

I can see Luthier rolling on the floor laughing "haha, they actually believed I was going to listen! Too funny! Put the questions in the bin, I have to finish my next practical joke and see who falls for that!"

The only reason the disrespect and disillusionment has swept this forum is from the totallack of interest and apathy apparent from 1c regarding those who actually care to post issues or bugs that need fixing only to hear that the bug tracking isn't even read!

But post your questions regarding the real issues and bugs and Luthier will ignore those too!

If anyone at 1c had bothered to visit these forums, react to the vast input that has been made, the community wouldn't have had to ask so many questions (that he can't be bothered to answer). They could have been answered over the last 18 months in something called a Friday update?

The total lack of disrespect and apathy on the part of 1C is something I don't believeI have encountered in years of visiting forums.

The main issue now is trust. We are told (well guess!) that BoM is the next greatest Sim, but why the hell do you expect us to believe that, when 1C can't even be trusted to answer genuine questions regarding software on which people have already spent money?

I don't know if 1C can gain the respect back, once bitten, twice shy!

I can only say as others have, we are all busy, we all have jobs or other things that encroach on our time, but we care about this product which is why we offer input and suggestions for making it better.

It's a shame that 1C don't appear to have the same passion for their product as we do and that can only mean they are not interested in anything but the money they get.

If Luthier makes an effort in his busy day to spend just 20 minutes on a Friday (even at home!) like we have done daily for many months then it would be a start, but what makes us think that he will be bothered after his last foray into the forum?

The only issue that has made negativityrage through these threads is the the lack of input after Luthier apparently showed he was interested in the community. The lack of answers has reinforced what many believed, that we'll only be of interest again when he has some more dodgy software to offer from the back of a car!

He needs to answer the questions that we took time to ask to at least start gaining some respect and credibility if he wants us to believein his commitment to us and our future investment in software he claims is fit for release!

Answers to questions please that were asked and we'll go from there.

Disillusioned, MP

[Fall_Pink?]

Don't be too harsh on them. They already know they screwed up big time and are totally unable to fix this. The poor game engine just won't let them fix anything that matters to us.

Let's hope they'll fix the flawed game engine with BoM and add most of our requests.

They cannot afford to relase another CoD, that's for sure. It's all or nothing for them right now. I have hope, but this time I wait for the reviews...

Rgs,
FP

[Baron]

And then it was locked.

[kristorf]

Amazing isn't it, Codemasters released F1 2012 last week and there were complaints about certain things, amazingly they have released their second patch in three days.

Extract from something called a 'read me' (never heard of those, have you??)

''We are working on other issues you have reported via the forums, Facebook and Twitter and are working to fix them as quickly as possible. In the meantime, please note that we are still collecting feedback via our Technical Assistance forums and do encourage you to post your issues there being sure to include as much information as possible. ''


How's that for customer service??

[Mysticpuma]

Originally Posted by kristorf

Amazing isn't it, Codemasters released F1 2012 last week and there were complaints about certain things, amazingly they have released their second patch in three days.

Extract from something called a 'read me' (never heard of those, have you??)

''We are working on other issues you have reported via the forums, Facebook and Twitter and are working to fix them as quickly as possible. In the meantime, please note that we are still collecting feedback via our Technical Assistance forums and do encourage you to post your issues there being sure to include as much information as possible. ''


How's that for customer service??

Steady on Kristorf you'll be accused of being negative about the communication on these forums from the dev's

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by kristorf

Amazing isn't it, Codemasters released F1 2012 last week and there were complaints about certain things, amazingly they have released their second patch in three days.

Extract from something called a 'read me' (never heard of those, have you??)

''We are working on other issues you have reported via the forums, Facebook and Twitter and are working to fix them as quickly as possible. In the meantime, please note that we are still collecting feedback via our Technical Assistance forums and do encourage you to post your issues there being sure to include as much information as possible. ''



How's that for customer service??

Please remember that those people had a very stable engine to poke their hands into.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

Please remember that those people had a very stable engine to poke their hands into.

Bingo!

[Force10]

It's a bad day when you compare Codemasters community support to yours and you come up short. Maybe 1C should look into licensing the Ego engine for COD.


Let me answer for you Ace:

Bingo!

[hiro]

hmm . . .


comparisons . . . come on, gotta be little more fair . . .

Codemasters is a top British gaming company with 800 employees, that began in the 80's busting out games for commodores and amigas to today's PC and PS triple era.

Their games range from mmorpg's to action, FPS's, rpg's, sports, those restaurant style games etc . . . they have experience in making their sounds and music . . .

That's a hell of a resume

F1 series started in 09' and they've been improving it this year. They got the license when Sony didn't renew it . . . (remember Sony has its hand in Gran Turismo series another excellent driving sim)

F1 has had alot of history and there are more games on this series than plane types in all WW 2 sims in history.

F1 has a rich history and lots of features, codes to draw from. Also F1 from 2009, the data for the cars and racers, and everything is up to date. F1 2012 is rated 9's by IGN, and it its a simulation with a steep learning curve.

Plus as others said its a solid game engine. Plus F1 doesn't have to model as many physics properties as a WW2 sim ( such as damage from various sources, atmospheric weather, 3D planes etc).

With 800 ninjas coding, you can be sure of a solid game release. To put things into perspective, Blizzard has 4500 employees, while Infinity Ward (call of duty) has 100 . . .


Now compare this our situation. No 800 employees. An impressive gaming resume to be sure, but you have to remember flight sims are very complicated compared to other games. At least a good one that models almost every aspect of combat flying.

Like the F1 series, they had IL-2 1946 to draw from. That's impressive also.

But remember the heart and mind (Oleg) was taken out, and the soul (Luthier and his team) is left.

For some reason, the working game engine of the Oleg era Storm of War wasn't used or had to be modified for some reason and a broke one was put in place.

And then there was a major OS change for the PC (XP, then to vista / win 7). Codemasters has experience in entire hardware / software / os systems, not just an OS change.

They have much more to deal with than the world of F1. They have WW 2. Also the information they have to chase is 50+ years old, and not recent like the 2009 F1 and history of F1. There is much more complicated things in a flight sim than a racing sim.

they don't have tons of games to draw from, like popular F1 series.

And the game engine they are using is damaged goods. Codemasters has a working engine.


let's be fair, that isn't even a good comparison. First off the games are wildly different. Second, the companies have different philosophy, and history. 3rd, to the Clod devs after the set back they've been handed to them . . .we're lucky (and blessed) they've even came out with a game on the caliber as CLoD. 4th, the number of manpower is vastly different.

Look at the Football Americano team, the Saints. They were an impressive team last season. This season their head coach was taken out by the NFL, and they are the worst team . . . Even after a few games, they can't get their act together. This dev team had their head coach leave, and they aren't the worst. They've had a bad set back, but they know what they need to improve.





As for the trust issue . . . everyone falls on this. Remember Toyota had gained the trust of the world, but blew it when they tried to ol' coverup with the sticky gas pedal, and it was even more of a blow up when the domestic toyotas of the same model, year, type were found to be error free, but only their exports had the issue, and had to admit the practice that some Japanese companies favor domestic markets and make the best, while having a lesser model go out (but still quality) to the rest of the world.

Also lots of assumptions . .. usually lack of information causes the masses to fill in the blanks, shoot everyone likes a good speculation, heck sewing circles and rumors. There is even an entertainment industry based off of speculation on stars and popular people.

the devs maybe laughing at the craziness, but who knows if they are laughing at us.

I wouldn't be surprised thought. I dated a medical intern who worked in the ER, they'd joke about the patients, or the dying, and the dead. The families and those close would be aghast. But the medical personnel did that to keep sane. They saw and experience lots of things that would make the average person go nuts. The humor helped break up the tension, ease the stress.


the dev's don't have a passion for this. well maybe a possibility, call it later . . . but their dedication to getting the series back to its old days of glory even though its tanked from the start . . . its hard not to stick to something like without a slight belief or passion in what you are doing. Especially after several months.

the devs aren't ignoring bug posts, its been stated (several times) they have ways for us to let them know about bugs and issues . . .

granted though the devs are slow at answering questions or getting back to us. many people think its easy to answer questions. But remember companies that do get back to the fans / community often have a full time employee(S) dedicated to running the blogs, forums, twitter etc. And this is delicate, because answering a question will certainly be read the wrong way.

Also have to remember the east west thing, customer service may not be the best thing and they are learning. After all, remember when they didn't even have a rep or any updates about the game. At least now they get back to us every several weeks . . . that was better than before.

Take a look at here. Luthier and B6 have posted. Then not even a page later, someone posts information as gospel truth that is opposite of what the official original post is.

A strategical method is go for the end win. The devs know that if Bom is a working game, that will checkmate all the negative and bad blood of Clod and this botched first release of the new IL-2 series.

Rather than waste time dealing with us here and getting caught in speculation, they maybe just putting all resources into development. Luthier's post generated more questions than he answered. He's the lead guy, and I'd rather have him doing his work than taking 10+ minutes out of his day to answer questions that a year after a successful BOM release, no one won't really care to recall and won't really matter in the long run.

Because in the end, if they do turn this series around, most will forgive them.

[Storm of When]

^^^

Excellent post hiro, right in so many ways but to take RoF as an example they have an excellent way of disseminating information to the community, a similar small team (I`d guess) ,a similar audience, and they started with a heavily flawed project. So if they can approach us the purchaser with that approach why can`t these guys??. I actually think the game isn`t that bad, you can see it`ll get there given time and effort, but they really need to have a more amiable public face. A lot of the aggro on here isn`t so much down to the game it`s down to the communication, good communication is free bad communication cost money.