why?

[Stublerone]

Again: Not an important one cause you normally should not try to fly into trees. There are billions of other big topics and also smaller topics are existing, which are forcing the majority of pilots not to fly clod. It is not only the flight model and the performance. It is also the fact that the game itself is missing so many things to fill it with life. Not only to fill it with life but also be able to create a story and to jusz get the people in the situation, that (with a little fantasy) the imagination of a good battle is created by their mind.

To ground battle: Atag is a server with tasks for every group. If you fly for your lifes, as you would to in real life. You would not go down for example with your 109. By the way: I didn't play that very often, but I heard, that a real situation very rarely occur in clod. Simply because of several facts:
1.) You want to have fun and find enemies instantly.
2.) As always, an online server like atag do not give you the possibility of something like SEOW, ADW, etc. . The same was in 1946: although there are missions and targets to reach, it was and is a battle, which soon get unrealistic. A realistic flying was only pissible, if several clabs met for a mission fight. These fights are totally different from normal online gaming. I flew several seow campaigns and i am sad, that this was not flown more often, because that is the only way to generate the true simulation factor in all its dimensions.

And last but not least: Fly some real clan evenings, get a clan, work with a real wingman and a realcommander in realtime events and you will see, that noone starts from airport with flying into trees and noone ever flying into trees while dogfighting. Sure it can go dowb to ground level, but in good teams,this do not happen. The action is a bit higher cause noone risks simply ti go that deep. So, simply not true and an immersion killer for some, but really soooiii far from being important.

Fix performance, fix fm, add mission builder and gui, add more possibilities for mission builder to create scenarious, add uncomplicated abd more natural vision control to enhance capabilities of the pilots, add additional modelling abilities or more stuff for mission builder, add weather effects, add mor precise or more complex wind situations and weather scenarios, add more plabe content, hurry up with fixing and hurry up with sequel, hurry up with new planes, new maps, new content, add tiny functions like realistically working radios and radar, positioning lights, drivable tanks, artilleries, vehicles, enhance field of view, viewing distances and LODs.......... The list is long and in place 3476, there will be somewhere the trees, that I could fly through in case I am flying bad.

Sorry, but so far away from being important for most of us. I personally never hit a tree or not very often. Perhaps one time every 50 flight hours maximum. I could live with it as long as the game has really has one of the biggest problems, that I have ever seen in gaming history. Poor guys, as it will be tough to come outo there. The problem is massive game problems, but also losing trust from the current customers, which are also the veterans and longterm supporters of old il2 and true fans and the true base.

[MadBlaster]

you posted a lot there to try an convince us. it is a fail imo.

see here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nap-of-the-earth

If you are on a map that has some mountains, this is how you hide your dot from low flying enemy fighters in the distance. if it is a flat map, you get to the treeline at ~ 100 meters to blend in. if you are over water, you go low, but not so low to make a wake and be seen. it is part of defensive flying to get to the target area and make your low level ground attack without being seen and coming in from an unexpected direction. this is especially important for the solo bomber. given the expectations of this sim, fixing the flying through trees should be high on the list of things to fix because it turns the challenge into arcade.

[Stublerone]

Defensive okay and for sure spits are approaching at lower altitudes with reference to their abilities, but none of them ever flew that low altitudes. It makes no sense and flying through canyons is nit possible in a landscape without any big profile. Believe me, that a real seow campaign in 1946 with good pilots on both sides will never flown between trees as it simply prevents nothing against organized attackers.

You will not see experienced pilots flying among the trees, while defending. Nonsense, sorry! It is not important as noone should fly a plane into a tree. That is so unimportant!

[David198502]

hey Stuberlone....
i agree that squad fights are the most immersive ones....while Bounder and me are part of a big group, and can enjoy such events on a regular basis, the fact remains, that only a very small percentage of the community is part of such groups.
the majority flies alone on online servers or offline.
you say that flying at such low altitudes is unrealistic....thats just not true...its only unrealistic to fly through a whole forest without a scratch.

besides it would add a lot to immersion when trying to emergency land....now its way way too easy to get the plane down safe....but it would be a real challenge once the trees have a collision model, and therefore way more fun...im really looking forward to that day.

it would be neat as well, to outmanouver your pursuer flying on deck between a avenue of trees, looking back and seeing him colliding with the trees.

sure, it shouldnt happen often to fly that low, but it will.just imagine your airfield gets strafed...not at all unrealistic....combataltitude=0-500m the first moments at least.

+ you say, that driveable vehicles have a higher priority for you than collidable trees?ok fair enough although i dont share that view,....but then ill have to ask you how you want that to implement, if trees dont have a collision model?would look really strange to see human driven vehicles cruising through forests.

+ you say you hit a tree every 50 hours of flight?waoh thats pretty often i have to say....but again i have to ask you, especially when its that often....dont you wish to crash with that tree then?

for me personally its pretty clear(and i dont speak for most of us like you do)....trees are a major part of the environment we move through trying to immerse us.
just like weather, or better the lack of....
for me personally it has a high priority.

[Stublerone]

Just didn't want to sound arrogant. In true I never saw anybody on adw or seow abd in clanwars and campaigns ever flew that low and crashed into trees. Never saw that and I have persinally never craahed a tree. Human driven vehicles are not important, but as the engine was written to implement this, it would be great to try out the first steps towards a ground war sim included. Just not necessary, bit even with all other stuff, the developers at current speed will need about 2 decades to implement and fix. So, the trees are nowhere near a priority question to ask. Also Aa isnt that important. FIX MAJOR FAULTS AND ADD SOMETHING TO GENERATE IMERSION, SO THAT ALL OTHER PILOTS BUY CLOD. From my colleagues, only about 10% bought already clod. They stick with the older game, as it is currently more intersting and challenging.

[MadBlaster]

In the older game, for example the Slovakia map on dogfight server, you can fly green skinned IL-2 and blend in low with the green trees and you are protected by the yaks and LA5s, which fly better at low altitude than high altitude anyway. If you are in 109 up high searching for the enemy bombers, you may never see the IL-2. If your 109 is too high, you won't even see the dot of the IL-2 render against the tree texture. This is why online you often see 109s go low, so that they can find the enemy by looking at the dot against the horizon/skyline instead of of the tree background from the top down. It is riskier for the 109s to do this, but that is sometimes the only way to get a fix on them. Otherwise, they are invisible. So, yes. Even good pilots in 109s go very low sometimes. How often have you been up high in 109 and then see a message that all the targets below you were destroyed and you didn't see anything? On certain maps, this is possible. You must consider the textures of the maps and your flying altitude if you want to spot low flying planes on the way to destroy your targets and sometimes flying near the treeline is the only way to do that.

Now consider you are the pilot in the IL-2. You have two stations to fly from. The gunner position and the cockpit. You are flying near the treeline to get to target and using the mountains to shield your dot. You will also be toggling back and forth between cockpit and gunner. Certainly, when you are flying from the gunner position, the possibility of hitting a tree increases greatly! I know this from experience. But still, you must watch your six and the gunner movement to see if enemy is near.


Now consider CLOD where you can fly through forests with your stuka or 110 to hide with no consequence? Kind of takes the fun out of what I described above. Why would they take something so obvious to good game play in the older game and leave it out of CLOD? Sorry, that is messed up.

[David198502]

Originally Posted by Stublerone

Just didn't want to sound arrogant. In true I never saw anybody on adw or seow abd in clanwars and campaigns ever flew that low and crashed into trees. Never saw that and I have persinally never craahed a tree. Human driven vehicles are not important, but as the engine was written to implement this, it would be great to try out the first steps towards a ground war sim included. Just not necessary, bit even with all other stuff, the developers at current speed will need about 2 decades to implement and fix. So, the trees are nowhere near a priority question to ask. Also Aa isnt that important. FIX MAJOR FAULTS AND ADD SOMETHING TO GENERATE IMERSION, SO THAT ALL OTHER PILOTS BUY CLOD. From my colleagues, only about 10% bought already clod. They stick with the older game, as it is currently more intersting and challenging.

no Stuberlone, for me you didnt sound arrogant at all....and all in all i can agree with your point of view, except that for me the "flying through trees bug/feature" is a MAJOR FAULT, which prevent us in many ways to enjoy the sim/game in its full potential.
just like the missing weather features, which have a very highg priority as well in my view....its supposed to be a flight sim....

the biggest problem is, that there are sooo many MAJOR FAULTS....i dont want to list them, we all know them anyway....so i can appreciate your standpoint.but still for me those missing features are really important.

EDIT: i have to correct myself...i think the biggest problem with this sim is, that it didnt advance a bit since release..they failed in every possible aspect to improve it...be it flight models, netcode,terrain,performance....
so its hard for us to cope with all those major faults anyway...but seeing that not one issue was really solved during the last 1,5years is the real puzzling thing.resulting in people having less and less expectations....in the last view months you see more and more statements like:why do we need working weather, the battle of britain was mostly sunny anyway.
thats puzzling as well,....i say, keep up the expectations and let the devs know exactly what we want and what we demand...then maybe we will one day really get a working sim....but saying that such features are not important, will do little to get those features one day.

[s8n]

1. ths is a sim/game not the real thing
2. when in a fight if i decide to run the tree line and take the chance to snub you into a tree. i want that option. if you can fly through trees it takes that away. as i said it makes this great sim into a mere game.
3. i know "real" pilots never did it but i'm not in "real" plane and sitting in my vp i want to take that chance. if the trees are no big deal then just delete all of em. it would really be boring looking sim/game if they were not there. my point is if this is a sim why are the damn trees just eye candy. i paid alot for this. and i can fly 1946 and what do ya know...if i hit the trees in that sim/game i crash out. just sayin it's expected from them why was this obvious stuation overlooked???
D~