Friday the 14th Development Update

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by furbs

Zap, you think the engine is working? not on my planet its not...

let me show you the light !

No AA ? not important in the grand scheme of things (right now), can be dealt with later
No X64bit ? most russian customers pc's still run on 32 bit hardware/software
No DX11 ? most russian customers pc's still run on dx9 (see earlier stats quoted by B6). some of us here seem to forget the il2 and SoW series are primarily aimed at the russian/east-block market, having it released to the west is a very secondary aspect. we will get 64bit and dx11, it just wont be very soon for these obvious reasons, and stomping our little feet on the ground about it wont change anything in that regard.
The clouds ? yeps we all want/like nicer and newer clouds, not a show stopper (as long as terrain and cloud masking works for AI's)
particles, smoke ? eh buy a bigger and better pc if you want those, its high end eye candy for the rich
hit affects are still not working as intended ? easy fix
Tree's and shadows still flicker and shimmer ? tree collision models is probably a resource issue, right now we have more visible trees in a very large landscape then any other flight sim and we just aint got the pc's to crunch that number. i suspect that might not be solved even by BoM release (hope it will), just remeber you are buying a flight sim, not a tree sim the shimmer and flikker is a gfx bug, relatively simple to fix and will be done (since other speed tree sims dont have this problem)
View range for aircraft is still way too low, with mid and far LOD's that are horrible ? yups i find that a MAJOR issue, but it is relatively easy to fix. CoD uses up to 10 LoD models versus the 3 in il2-1946, now the gfx engine is fixed altering the visibility of the more distant LoD models is fairly simple (not that i trust luthier to understand its importance, and be willing to direct this as a priority fix that will have a big positive impact on gameplay.
Ground object view distance is terrible and make bombing missions almost unplayable ? is linked to LoD models and a temporary byproduct of the new and improved gfx engine, again relatively easy to fix
Craters and far objects still show through landscape and cockpits ? annoying yes, but technically a minor issue to resolve, easy fix
Mirrors still dont work ? real men dont need mirrors ! you should be chasing the enemy, not let him chase you ! j/k, easy fix obviously (other then it being a resource hog, so must of us wont be able to switch it on even if it works)

That to me is not a working GFX engine: that to me is no reason to be a drama queen 6 - 9 months before release and imply the sky is falling in we now have a basically working gfx engine and most main area's are already working and near completion. its largely a bug fixing stage now rather then new content creation (other then a few people working on new aircraft and objects etc). that is a very different stage of completion than having a non working gfx engine and main missing elements at the point CoD was released. and the good news is that they have a number of other very advanced elements that can be quickly included later on once the main sim is working (pilots with animation, control of vehicles, advanced weather systems etc..). in late 2012 the whole paradigm is rather different them may 2011, most here should be able to see this.

Originally Posted by furbs

I remember when a few of us said it was not looking good for COD before release, and you kept telling us we were wrong and COD would be great, well here we go again...

if you are ignoring large parts of reality no wonder you cant arrive at the right conclusions. the ONLY issue with the CoD problems is the forced premature release of an unfinished sim, nothing else. you can either choose between NOTHING or the buggy beta we had in the last 12 months. for me personally i think that giving them some beer money to allow them to keep plodding on for another 12 to 18 months is a pretty good deal to still have the hope of eventually getting a decent and reasonably rounded product at the end. you see anybody else doing this kinda work for an in depth ww2 sim, me thinks not (and dont bother listing a few that are vaguely in that direction but each have much larger holes to fill before they even come close)

Originally Posted by furbs

Zap, here's my prediction(make a note) BOM will be more of the same, just with different aircraft and maps. The same bugs and problems and then the same promises and excuses from the devs about how they need a bit more time to get things right.

then my only question to you is, what have you personally done over this CoD time period to increase or decrease the odds of BoM being a good/better product or resolve and help fix CoD's faults and short coming ? lets be clear now, you are part of the problem furbs, you'r not part of the solution

Originally Posted by zapatista

let me show you the light !

No AA ? not important in the grand scheme of things (right now), can be dealt with later
No X64bit ? most russian customers pc's still run on 32 bit hardware/software
No DX11 ? most russian customers pc's still run on dx9 (see earlier stats quoted by B6). some of us here seem to forget the il2 and SoW series are primarily aimed at the russian/east-block market, having it released to the west is a very secondary aspect. we will get 64bit and dx11, it just wont be very soon for these obvious reasons, and stomping our little feet on the ground about it wont change anything in that regard.
The clouds ? yeps we all want/like nicer and newer clouds, not a show stopper (as long as terrain and cloud masking works for AI's)
particles, smoke ? eh buy a bigger and better pc if you want those, its high end eye candy for the rich
hit affects are still not working as intended ? easy fix
Tree's and shadows still flicker and shimmer ? tree collision models is probably a resource issue, right now we have more visible trees in a very large landscape then any other flight sim and we just aint got the pc's to crunch that number. i suspect that might not be solved even by BoM release (hope it will), just remeber you are buying a flight sim, not a tree sim the shimmer and flikker is a gfx bug, relatively simple to fix and will be done (since other speed tree sims dont have this problem)
View range for aircraft is still way too low, with mid and far LOD's that are horrible ? yups i find that a MAJOR issue, but it is relatively easy to fix. CoD uses up to 10 LoD models versus the 3 in il2-1946, now the gfx engine is fixed altering the visibility of the more distant LoD models is fairly simple (not that i trust luthier to understand its importance, and be willing to direct this as a priority fix that will have a big positive impact on gameplay.
Ground object view distance is terrible and make bombing missions almost unplayable ? is linked to LoD models and a temporary byproduct of the new and improved gfx engine, again relatively easy to fix
Craters and far objects still show through landscape and cockpits ? annoying yes, but technically a minor issue to resolve, easy fix
Mirrors still dont work ? real men dont need mirrors ! you should be chasing the enemy, not let him chase you ! j/k, easy fix obviously (other then it being a resource hog, so must of us wont be able to switch it on even if it works)

That to me is not a working GFX engine: that to me is no reason to be a drama queen 6 - 9 months before release and imply the sky is falling in


if you are ignoring large parts of reality no wonder you cant arrive at the right conclusions. the ONLY issue with the CoD problems is the forced premature release of an unfinished sim, nothing else. you can either choose between NOTHING or the buggy beta we had in the last 12 months. for me personally i think that giving them some beer money to allow them to keep plodding on for another 12 to 18 months is a pretty good deal to still have the hope of eventually getting a decent and reasonably rounded product tat the end. you see anybody else doing this kinda work for an in depth ww2 sim, me thinks not (and dont bother listing a few that are vaguely in that direction but each have much larger holes to fill before they even come close) ?


then my only question to you is, what have you personally done over this CoD time period to increase or decrease the odds of BoM being a good/better product or resolve and help fix CoD's faults and short coming ? lets be clear now, you are part of the problem furbs, you'r not part of the solution

Well Zap you certainly win a prize for the biggest load of bollox typed on the forum this year, funny though I'll give you that

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Well Zap you certainly win a prize for the biggest load of bollox typed on the forum this year, funny though I'll give you that

and the only good thing about you tree is that you are so obsessively busy posting negative crap about things you know little about, is that the chances of you ever reproducing are near to nil

Originally Posted by zapatista

and the only good thing about you tree is that you are so obsessively busy posting negative crap about things you know little about, is that the chances of you ever reproducing are near to nil

I am a farther of 4 Zap, and you will be pleased to know they are all healthy. I've been talking crap 2 years before the release of this game, my credibility is far far greater than yours, and unlike you I paid for the game.

[JG52Uther]

Enough of the back and forth arguing. If you want to fight with each other do it via PM, not in public.

[furbs]

Originally Posted by zapatista

let me show you the light !

No AA ? not important in the grand scheme of things (right now), can be dealt with later
No X64bit ? most russian customers pc's still run on 32 bit hardware/software
No DX11 ? most russian customers pc's still run on dx9 (see earlier stats quoted by B6). some of us here seem to forget the il2 and SoW series are primarily aimed at the russian/east-block market, having it released to the west is a very secondary aspect. we will get 64bit and dx11, it just wont be very soon for these obvious reasons, and stomping our little feet on the ground about it wont change anything in that regard.
The clouds ? yeps we all want/like nicer and newer clouds, not a show stopper (as long as terrain and cloud masking works for AI's)
particles, smoke ? eh buy a bigger and better pc if you want those, its high end eye candy for the rich
hit affects are still not working as intended ? easy fix
Tree's and shadows still flicker and shimmer ? tree collision models is probably a resource issue, right now we have more visible trees in a very large landscape then any other flight sim and we just aint got the pc's to crunch that number. i suspect that might not be solved even by BoM release (hope it will), just remeber you are buying a flight sim, not a tree sim the shimmer and flikker is a gfx bug, relatively simple to fix and will be done (since other speed tree sims dont have this problem)
View range for aircraft is still way too low, with mid and far LOD's that are horrible ? yups i find that a MAJOR issue, but it is relatively easy to fix. CoD uses up to 10 LoD models versus the 3 in il2-1946, now the gfx engine is fixed altering the visibility of the more distant LoD models is fairly simple (not that i trust luthier to understand its importance, and be willing to direct this as a priority fix that will have a big positive impact on gameplay.
Ground object view distance is terrible and make bombing missions almost unplayable ? is linked to LoD models and a temporary byproduct of the new and improved gfx engine, again relatively easy to fix
Craters and far objects still show through landscape and cockpits ? annoying yes, but technically a minor issue to resolve, easy fix
Mirrors still dont work ? real men dont need mirrors ! you should be chasing the enemy, not let him chase you ! j/k, easy fix obviously (other then it being a resource hog, so must of us wont be able to switch it on even if it works)

That to me is not a working GFX engine: that to me is no reason to be a drama queen 6 - 9 months before release and imply the sky is falling in


if you are ignoring large parts of reality no wonder you cant arrive at the right conclusions. the ONLY issue with the CoD problems is the forced premature release of an unfinished sim, nothing else. you can either choose between NOTHING or the buggy beta we had in the last 12 months. for me personally i think that giving them some beer money to allow them to keep plodding on for another 12 to 18 months is a pretty good deal to still have the hope of eventually getting a decent and reasonably rounded product tat the end. you see anybody else doing this kinda work for an in depth ww2 sim, me thinks not (and dont bother listing a few that are vaguely in that direction but each have much larger holes to fill before they even come close) ?


then my only question to you is, what have you personally done over this CoD time period to increase or decrease the odds of BoM being a good/better product or resolve and help fix CoD's faults and short coming ? lets be clear now, you are part of the problem furbs, you'r not part of the solution

Zap, looking at your post, are you sure you and Luthier are not related?

Anyway, your post almost made me spit my coffee.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by zapatista

let me show you the light !

No AA ? not important in the grand scheme of things (right now), can be dealt with later
No X64bit ? most russian customers pc's still run on 32 bit hardware/software
No DX11 ? most russian customers pc's still run on dx9 (see earlier stats quoted by B6). some of us here seem to forget the il2 and SoW series are primarily aimed at the russian/east-block market, having it released to the west is a very secondary aspect. we will get 64bit and dx11, it just wont be very soon for these obvious reasons, and stomping our little feet on the ground about it wont change anything in that regard.
The clouds ? yeps we all want/like nicer and newer clouds, not a show stopper (as long as terrain and cloud masking works for AI's)
particles, smoke ? eh buy a bigger and better pc if you want those, its high end eye candy for the rich
hit affects are still not working as intended ? easy fix
Tree's and shadows still flicker and shimmer ? tree collision models is probably a resource issue, right now we have more visible trees in a very large landscape then any other flight sim and we just aint got the pc's to crunch that number. i suspect that might not be solved even by BoM release (hope it will), just remeber you are buying a flight sim, not a tree sim the shimmer and flikker is a gfx bug, relatively simple to fix and will be done (since other speed tree sims dont have this problem)
View range for aircraft is still way too low, with mid and far LOD's that are horrible ? yups i find that a MAJOR issue, but it is relatively easy to fix. CoD uses up to 10 LoD models versus the 3 in il2-1946, now the gfx engine is fixed altering the visibility of the more distant LoD models is fairly simple (not that i trust luthier to understand its importance, and be willing to direct this as a priority fix that will have a big positive impact on gameplay.
Ground object view distance is terrible and make bombing missions almost unplayable ? is linked to LoD models and a temporary byproduct of the new and improved gfx engine, again relatively easy to fix
Craters and far objects still show through landscape and cockpits ? annoying yes, but technically a minor issue to resolve, easy fix
Mirrors still dont work ? real men dont need mirrors ! you should be chasing the enemy, not let him chase you ! j/k, easy fix obviously (other then it being a resource hog, so must of us wont be able to switch it on even if it works)

That to me is not a working GFX engine: that to me is no reason to be a drama queen 6 - 9 months before release and imply the sky is falling in we now have a basically working gfx engine and most main area's are already working and near completion. its largely a bug fixing stage now rather then new content creation (other then a few people working on new aircraft and objects etc). that is a very different stage of completion than having a non working gfx engine and main missing elements at the point CoD was released. and the good news is that they have a number of other very advanced elements that can be quickly included later on once the main sim is working (pilots with animation, control of vehicles, advanced weather systems etc..). in late 2012 the whole paradigm is rather different them may 2011, most here should be able to see this.

Just ignore those who attack you personally for what you said..

It just proves that they can not address anything in your post (the message)

Which is why they have to resort to attacking you (the messanger)

[lokitexas]

Originally Posted by zapatista

then my only question to you is, what have you personally done over this CoD time period to increase or decrease the odds of BoM being a good/better product or resolve and help fix CoD's faults and short coming ? lets be clear now, you are part of the problem furbs, you'r not part of the solution

So, as a customer, its our job to help fix the product we paid for? And if we dont, we are part of the problem?

Holy hell, this is funny.

I know its an old saying....but what are you smokin?

[Davy TASB]

I fully expect to purchase the Battle Of Moscow thingy just to see what its like when it is on offer in a Steam sale for about £1.37p.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by lokitexas

So, as a customer, its our job to help fix the product we paid for? And if we dont, we are part of the problem?

you have the right to buy as much coca cola as you want and then get diabetes
you have the right to eat as many hamburgers as you want and then clog your arteries and die prematurely of a heart attack
you also have the right to vote in a corrupt president who then lets his crony friends plunder your national coffers and kill off the american empire in one big swoop

and you also have the right not to do any background reading and go buy any software game you want and end up with a dud but why come and complain about it ? a little homework before putting down your cash would have shown you the risk, to late to complain now padre, all you got left now is the crying over spilled milk

if however you are in the hope of at some time getting your sweaty little hands on a good complex and advanced ww2 flight simulator, where you gonna go ? not many places eh. now take the beta you have now, add 18 months to 2 years, and voila you have a much better product, one that will be playable and will continue to be worked on for the next years to come (as further expansions or the MMO develop)

so just be grateful you helped in some VERY small way to support further development of a great flightsim, say thank you and be on your way !