Gunnery Fundamental, tips and advice

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

My favorite subject in Clod
Do you have some tips or tricks about improved gunnery in game for others to try? Perhaps a favorite approach angle on an enemy, or an effective belt/convergence setting. Gunnery success is the bottom line in this game, and with a success, a player become content

In the 109 I shoot at 115 meters.

At that range, a Spitfire's wings should be juuust narrower than the diameter of the revi, and the Hurri should be juuust wider.

Against bombers, I don't even use the cannons. Load armor-piercing rounds into your nose guns, and then just shoot at the tailgunner until you kill him, and then the engine cowling until you get the nice thick black smoke.

Usually ~200 rounds per bomber.

[SlipBall]

My style of aiming is always at the vertical mid rudder point of an aircraft that I sneak up on. Others situations are governed by our relation to each other, in each case different, naturally. On bombers I will start early, maybe 270 out and closing slow as possible, walking my guns in a tight left/right on rudder section, duration of burst very short at the beginning, but increase as I close. Almost always gunners are killed, many times the first burst may kill the pilot, and so ammo is not wasted.

Classified

Tracers are optional, I don't use them.


Slips dominator load Bf-109

Guns:

Gun 1. convergence vert. 170, hor. 140,--belt round load ratio 18/2--first 18 round: 7.92x57 S.m.K.H. Spitzgeschoss mit Kern, Hart--next: 2 rounds: 7.92x57 S.m.K. Ub.m Zerl. Spitzgeschoss mit Kern

2. convergence vert. convergence vert. 200, hor. 160,--belt round load ratio 18/2--first 18 round: 7.92x57 S.m.K.H. Spitzgeschoss mit Kern, Hart--next: 2 rounds: 7.92x57 S.m.K. Ub.m Zerl. Spitzgeschoss mit Kern

3. convergence vert. 115, hor. 100,--belt round load ratio 100%--20x80 RB, m Geschoss

4. convergence vert. 115, hor. 100,--belt round load ratio 100%--20x80 RB, m Geschoss

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Slips RED hot Rotol--BR-20 killer

Tracers are optional

Guns:

Gun 1. convergence vert. 125, hor. 100,--belt round load ratio 1/10--first round:Tracer (yellow), G, Infantery Long Range, 1000 yd, .303 inch, Cordite, Mark 2--next: 10 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

2. convergence vert. 125, hor. 100,--belt round load ratio 4/1/6--4 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ--next: 1 round: Tracer (yellow), G, Infantery Long Range, 1000 yd, .303 inch, Cordite, Mark 2--next: 6 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

3. convergence vert. 150, hor. 125,--belt round load ratio 100%--Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

4. convergence vert. 150, hor. 125,--belt round load ratio 100%--Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

5. convergence vert. 275, hor. 250--belt round load ratio 1/10--first round:Tracer (yellow), G, Infantery Long Range, 1000 yd, .303 inch, Cordite, Mark 2--next: 10 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

6. convergence vert. 275, hor. 250--belt round load ratio 4/1/6--4 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ--1 round: Tracer (yellow), G, Infantery Long Range, 1000 yd, .303 inch, Cordite, Mark 2--next: 6 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

7. convergence vert. 275, hor. 250--belt round load ratio 100%--Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

8. convergence vert. 275, hor. 250,--belt round load ratio 100%--Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

Fighter killer: Gun 1-4 unchanged
5. 235/200
6. 235/200
7. 235/200
8. 235/200
　
　
　

[Hellbender]

For the Luftwaffe planes the "7.92x57 S.m.K.H. Spitzgeschoss mit Kern, Hart" round has excellent performance against british planes. A couple of hits into the engine comaprtment of the British Fighters and they start smoking badly. Nice for attack where a lots of lead is required, for instacne when the Spitfire or the Hurricane is turning away. The 20mm cannons can be effective from 6 o´clock when you aim with the reticle at the upper part of the rudder of your target, then your cannon rounds should impact from close range in the wings of your target disabling it most likely.

For the SPitfire and Hurricane, I personally use a 173m (190 yards) convergence with the following load out:

1. Tracer - DeWilde
2. Tracer - AP
3. DeWilde
4. AP
5. AP
6. DeWilde
7. Tracer - AP
8. Tracer - DeWilde

[SlipBall]

I don't recommend using tracers to heavily, they tell both AI or a human that you are there. Precious seconds of surprise are lost, they are also an invitation for help to arrive for your opponent. They can be seen for a long distance, just as importantly they take up valuable belt space, and decrease damage potential from the hit average.

[Varrattu]

Referring the aircraft.ini, iL2CoD-v.1.08.18956, the standard convergence for all BF109E is defined as follows:

nose mounted MG 2x Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 17 (7.92mm)
vertical convergence == 400 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 420 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 17 (7.92mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Oerlikon/Ikaria MG FF (20mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Oerlikon/Ikaria MG FF/M (20mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

There is a good reason why vertical standard convergence is 500 m (Visierschuss). The German iL2CoD munition types have been animated in a version "verbessert" (improved). The cartridges are of high-velocity type for maximum performance in aircraft machine guns and give higher pressure than other 7,9 mm rounds.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...9&postcount=15

... and here are the standard convergences for all iL2CoD Spitfires and Hurricanes, taken from aircraft.ini, iL2CoD-v.1.08.18956:

vertical convergence == 370 yards
horizontal convergence == 370 yards

~S~

Varrattu

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Hellbender

I have no problem with the default convergence of the 109E, especially with the MGs which are more than nice to fire from all angles at enemy aircraft sicne it is so easy to lead with them sicne their are palced on the nose. Much more difficult it is to do the same work with the Spit or Hurri with wing mounted guns. I loved all the nose mounted cannons and MGs in Il 2 1946.

In general, for Spits and Hurris, use a convergence around 200m or lower and fill the ammo belts with a mix of DeWilde and AP rounds. If possible, try to get as close as possible with your plane on the enemy aircraft and start perforating it.

I have read that closing to 70m was used a lot during the war.

Originally Posted by macro

i use 110 meters.

for the spit it does matter

if you use long range conv. then you get 2 hit spots either side of your dot on the gun sight (at close range where you are far more likly to get hits), 110 (or another close setting) means both hit on the dot at close range. this means you have to fill up the site with the enemy Ac, but this also means you can aim at a specific part of the plane with all the guns, (i.e cockpit, fueltanks, weakspots on bombers etc). if all the guns are hitting the same spot, it doesnt take a long burst to destroy whatever they hit. being restricted to close combat also means you save ammo, as you only get 12 seconds of fire as it is.

thats my preference anyway

Its good to have a wing set for some distance for bombers, because the time needed for gunner damage sometimes. I think the vertical convergence should have a higher value than the hor...especially when hitting bombers, not sure why, but hit average does go up.

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

I use the 400 200 on cannons and 400 400 on MGs as per the Luftwaffe diagram. Like Tom said with the cannons they are fairley inaccurate and so for this reason I only use them for close range, like 100 metres on small targets like fighters. I also like to save ammo and confirm I am going to hit by using the MG's to draw on to the target and when you see hits fire the big guns... Tracers and or Beobachtung are good for this.

Firing on fighters dead 6 is kinda wasteful, the low volocity cannon rounds tend to go over and under the wings of your target as the wings are so thin from this angle. In fact from dead 6 you are better using the nose MG's to aim for the oil cooler or water rad as this will be just as crippling as a hole in the wing... Firing straight down the fusalage is largely wasteful.

The best target I feel for a fighter is 90 degree on top on from below as he turns. You often have to draw blind lead under your nose and experieced red pilots will add slip with the rudder so expect to miss sometimes. How ever the window for shooting is smaller so you use less ammo and the target is bigger so you have more chance of a hit. Ideally these shots are at less than 100 metres, wingspan of target fighter once in your recticle, you have to get close.

I had cannons for a long time set to 100metres however this only limits your options should you need to fire them at longer distance... Like to scare someone off your wingman. The cannon trails have a good phycological effect...


I'd really love to try a 109 with 8 wing MG's like the hurri set up just to see what its like...

Just my 2 cents, as always...

Me too! that would be insane

Aiming at the rudder will generally hit those targets you mention, plus pilot maybe.

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

In the 109 I shoot at 115 meters.

At that range, a Spitfire's wings should be juuust narrower than the diameter of the revi, and the Hurri should be juuust wider.

Against bombers, I don't even use the cannons. Load armor-piercing rounds into your nose guns, and then just shoot at the tailgunner until you kill him, and then the engine cowling until you get the nice thick black smoke.

Usually ~200 rounds per bomber.

A very good number for rounds used!

Originally Posted by Hellbender

For the Luftwaffe planes the "7.92x57 S.m.K.H. Spitzgeschoss mit Kern, Hart" round has excellent performance against british planes. A couple of hits into the engine comaprtment of the British Fighters and they start smoking badly. Nice for attack where a lots of lead is required, for instacne when the Spitfire or the Hurricane is turning away. The 20mm cannons can be effective from 6 o´clock when you aim with the reticle at the upper part of the rudder of your target, then your cannon rounds should impact from close range in the wings of your target disabling it most likely.

For the SPitfire and Hurricane, I personally use a 173m (190 yards) convergence with the following load out:

1. Tracer - DeWilde
2. Tracer - AP
3. DeWilde
4. AP
5. AP
6. DeWilde
7. Tracer - AP
8. Tracer - DeWilde

The Hart round is my favorite too!

[trademe900]

The RAF fighters are not even worth flying with the default ammo loadout; it's really only good for wounding or injuring gunners. Forget about a 109 with that loadout, you will only suceed in perforating his cooling and as we know the planes in COD can go seemingly forever with streaming coolant, even at full power.

As it is not possible to chase down a 109 you only have split seconds to work with in turning deflection shots or high speed bounces. I load all guns with solely dewilde and armour piercing, with the dewilde having the greatest effect. There is something definitely wrong with the damage modelling at present however; if you load all guns entirely with dewilde the wings blow off he111's instantly in spectacularly unrealistic fashion. I tend to work around this bug by making half loadout armour piercing. With the loadout like this you are likely to both set fire to the enemy or disable it's control surfaces.

I have never caused structural damage to a plane with ball or any other ammo other than armour piercing so as far as i'm concerned only dewilde and armour piercing are of any use.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by trademe900

The RAF fighters are not even worth flying with the default ammo loadout; it's really only good for wounding or injuring gunners. Forget about a 109 with that loadout, you will only suceed in perforating his cooling and as we know the planes in COD can go seemingly forever with streaming coolant, even at full power.

As it is not possible to chase down a 109 you only have split seconds to work with in turning deflection shots or high speed bounces. I load all guns with solely dewilde and armour piercing, with the dewilde having the greatest effect. There is something definitely wrong with the damage modelling at present however; if you load all guns entirely with dewilde the wings blow off he111's instantly in spectacularly unrealistic fashion. I tend to work around this bug by making half loadout armour piercing. With the loadout like this you are likely to both set fire to the enemy or disable it's control surfaces.

I have never caused structural damage to a plane with ball or any other ammo other than armour piercing so as far as i'm concerned only dewilde and armour piercing are of any use.

I fly the RAF fighters with default ammo (for they are historically accurate) and never encountered any of the problems you are describing. If you hit the 109 at convergence range, you will do lots of damage.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I fly the RAF fighters with default ammo (for they are historically accurate) and never encountered any of the problems you are describing. If you hit the 109 at convergence range, you will do lots of damage.

I wonder if those pilots had their ammo belts adjusted to their preference load very often back then. Statistically speaking, the Brit guns did very well, but was some tweaking done at times. Or was there a very ridged policy in place?