British FM killing the fun of the game for allied pilots.

[OSSI]

Originally Posted by Nitrous

Thanks 1C for the improved stability from latest beta patch.
Please work hard on the British FM as its killing the enjoyment of the game for many allied pilots.

FM issues

Engine overheating
Loss of energy/momentum
Bad climb rates
Incorrect top speeds
Incorrect acceleration.

The Spitfire turns now better and dont lost energy as in real and you want turn better and want lost lower engery? Maybe we make the DM from bomber more worse too so 1 spit can shoot down 20 bomber in one time with his laserguns? The backgunner are now worse. In real a single fighter who attack a bomber formation wants to suicide.

Maybe you want a arcade sim? Oh we have one....!?!

[AbortedMan]

Doesn't matter, man. As soon as (if) 1C puts any red plane on a competitive level with 109s, good ol' ATAG will limit them to 3 or 4 per mission. So you won't get to fly them anyway...just like they did with the IIa in the steam release version.

Tell me I'm wrong, go ahead.

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by AbortedMan

Doesn't matter, man. As soon as (if) 1C puts any red plane on a competitive level with 109s, good ol' ATAG will limit them to 3 or 4 per mission. So you won't get to fly them anyway...just like they did with the IIa in the steam release version.

Tell me I'm wrong, go ahead.

Okay your wrong, jesus christ man grow up.

At one time they limited Spit II and BF109 E4's to 5 each side, stop spreading your BS everywhere.

ATAG are not biased to either side, from what I have seen they have a similar number of red and blue pilots.

You should be embarrassed with your behaviour its disgraceful.

[JG52Krupi]

Nitrous, you should have ticked the "show who voted" box.

That way you could see if anyone was trying to mess with the results.

[MB_Avro_UK]

I'm here to enjoy Cliffs of Dover. If Bue performs beter than Red in FM it doesn't bother me. And this Poll, although well meant, won't achieve anything.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro

[notafinger!]

Originally Posted by Robo.

In my opinion, every reasonable 'blue pilot' should be able to see the difference and if a person cares (or wants) to try to walk in the others guys shoes, his opinion will be much more valuable. That goes for both red and blue, there is no difference to me. It's always easier to judge without trying - like strict blue saying the red tactics is wrong, or the red saying the 109 is doodle to fly. None of that is true actually but you can't explain that to someone who never tried. Just my 0.02 Eurocents

Very well said and I agree completely. Personally, I believe it's fully possible to create flight models that feel correct historically but are balanced in multiplayer. I do not think absolute historic fidelity is possible.

What bothers me in these debates is that the OP starts with a clearly biased statement. Yes, those things listed should be corrected but no mention of the things that are over modeled. Open canopies that induce no drag, flaps that can be dropped at any speed, turn/roll rates that are way over spec, wings that can have massive holes in them without loss of maneuverability, energy retention in high G turns. Problem is I think pilots have become so use to these things that if/when they are ever corrected there will be another wave of forum bitching and 1C conspiracy theorists. However, if these issues are not corrected in tandem with FM improvements then we go right back to the uber Spit IIa.

There are 109 things that need corrected also. Leading edge slats that do nothing, rudder trimmed for too slow a speed, fuel tank that is maybe too vulnerable to rifle caliber hits (that goes for all fuel tanks in the sim) but the set and forget throttle should be corrected too as well as heavier elevators at high speed. I'm sure there are many blue pilots who cruise around at 1.35 ata at all times and will get quite a shock if complex engine management is ever actually made complex.

Anyway, I vote yes because I want to see more Hurricanes.

[arthursmedley]

Originally Posted by MB_Avro_UK

I'm here to enjoy Cliffs of Dover. If Bue performs beter than Red in FM it doesn't bother me. And this Poll, although well meant, won't achieve anything.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro

Yes, I agree.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

The only thing 'killing' the game is unfounded claims

For example, note that no proof of any of the claims was provided!

Which is not to say the claims are false! Only that no proof was provided!

My point is simple

Based on 20+ years of flight simming.. Most claims of FM errors turn out to be pilot errors! So, unless your collecting real time data while performing these tests, any and all claims will remain unfounded

There are several C# scripts here that will collect test data during flight, FST has one, i.e.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=27552

And klem who made changes to FST's script has one, i.e.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33661

Now only do this if you want your claims to be taken seriously and if you want to provide useful feedback!

And don't stop there!

Next provide the real world data your using in your claims that such and such is too this or that.. Because without real world data claims of such and such being too this or that is pretty meaningless!

But if all you want to do is stir the RED vs. BLUE pot that please continue to make unfounded claims of FM errors!

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by OSSI

The Spitfire turns now better and dont lost energy as in real and you want turn better and want lost lower engery? Maybe we make the DM from bomber more worse too so 1 spit can shoot down 20 bomber in one time with his laserguns? The backgunner are now worse. In real a single fighter who attack a bomber formation wants to suicide.

Maybe you want a arcade sim? Oh we have one....!?!

I see what you mean, but I don't think you're entirely correct in your statement.

In the 1.07 beta for example, the Spitfire was really turning very good and it was very difficult to get the plane into high-speed stall which was plain wrong. Luckily, this has been resolved in 1.08. I believe the Spitfire overall characteristics have been changed in a good way, except for high speed roll-rate which is still way too high.

The Hurricane though is still a bit of a mess - the wing drops for no reason at all even at nice corner speed and there is no way you can get better turnrate than a Spitfire, which was the case in real life and it's well documented. Just an example regarding the turnrate while you mentioned that although the OP never mentioned it.

The OP is not very clear in the forst post, just mentiones RAF FMs in general and one has to agree for it's very frustrating for any pilots who try to fly these machines. Mind you the biggest problem is the overheating of the Merlins and the so called CEM characteristics - this has been changed quite a few times recently and on pretty random basis. I don't mind exploring the changes everytime I install the new beta patch but it's quite unpleasant to see that while some things are being fixed and addressed, others are being broken in the process - and they were alright before! It leads to funny situations like when you have to fly at auto lean mixture if you want to engage emergency power, which is hilarious but there we go. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the beta patches and I can see the devs are trying to improve things, but they are somehow not getting there. Have you tried fighting the enemy at 2200rpm csp? That does not make sense, but you have to do that otherwise you'll blow your engine up for no logical reason at all. At random altitudes, mind you. You are simply gonna die no matter what tactics you come up with... still fun. I am coping with that but I can tell you that it is really frustrating sometimes. Maybe difficult to see on the other side of the river where you can bang your Erhoehte Notleisung again and again and again and again.

I also like the general tweaks of the rudder response - this concerns all planes in new beta. It's still not perfect but much better than it was. Same with negative G and other tweaks. DM of the Spitfire needs lots of attention though, like wing thoughness and other important details like canopy drag, flaps behaviour etc etc etc.

In general, I very much agree with Notafinger! and vranac, I typed too much already but no matter how you look at it, the Reds have got it more difficult at the moment due to constant changes and more silly FM issues (e.g. aggressive overheating). In my opinion of course, based on my red and blue experience.

Let's better wait for next beta