i need some complex engine management tips (spitfire and hurricane)

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by AKA_Tenn

... if you go back and play the original IL2, compare it to IL2FB, then compare AEP to 1946 and you'll see they changed the FMs many times,...

For the worst on many occasion !!!

[Osprey]

Current Hurricane I 12lb* in 1946 with HSFX makes barely 250mph @SL. Can't get it faster than that. This is worse than COD after years and years of development. Why is it like this? Who did the FM?

[Kwiatek]

IRL Hurricane MK1 at 12lbs emergency boost reached ab. 280-285 mph at sea level. At nominal power - +6 1/4 lbs reached 260 mph at the deck. CLOD FM is also far away from these.

[Osprey]

Yes that's correct, although the test speeds show 291mph IIRC, not sure of the loadout for that though.

I don't understand how people supposedly interested in flight history can get this so wrong.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I can not say that I am surprised by this..

Over the past 10 years of flight simming I have noticed this tread of not caring about how accurate the flight model is in simulating the aircraft performance..

Which is not surprising what with all the arcade style (xbox) types of flights simmers that have come along in the past 10 years..

Where they are more concerned with eye-candy than the flight models ability to accurately simulate the aircraft performance..

The good news is..

With time..

Some of these xbox type evolve (grow up?) into what we use to call a 'hard core flight simmer'.

Where getting the performance right is not an option but a 'basic' requirement.

The evolution of the xbox mind set typically goes like this..

They start off not caring at all about the accuracy of the flight model to simulate the aircraft performance, to caring about the 'relative' performance of the aircraft, to finally caring about the flight model being able to simulate the aircraft performance within 5% of the real world data.

Sadly some never make the full transition and are happy enough with something less than accurate..

Which is why flight sim makers always have to provide enough options to convert the accurate flight simulation into an xbox arcade type of game.

[Osprey]

But the trouble is that this is a '*' new slot aircraft. Therefore it should've been done by somebody properly, a fan. I'm left wondering if it is the mod pack which make their own changes to the new slot type because they aren't happy with it. 40mph is a lot, it's not hard to find out speed tests.

Can somebody verify the performance in UP? or another pack? Wrong forum really, just frustrating.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Osprey

But the trouble is that this is a '*' new slot aircraft. Therefore it should've been done by somebody properly, a fan. I'm left wondering if it is the mod pack which make their own changes to the new slot type because they aren't happy with it. 40mph is a lot, it's not hard to find out speed tests.

Can somebody verify the performance in UP? or another pack? Wrong forum really, just frustrating.

Well a lot of mods start off with someone who 'loves' the plane enough to create the 3D model of it..

You can find a lot of 'artiest' that love planes and know how to use 3DMAX to create a new plane, or tweak and existing one

But it is not as easy to find someone like that who also knows about flight modeling.. Which means most mods end up using a flight model from another plane with maybe a few tweaks too it.

Which is NOT a ding on mod makers!

Even the folks who should know (1C, Oleg) can make mistakes

Take the Bf109K4 vs. Spitfire 25lb in IL-2

Ask your average IL-2 fan which plane is 'uber' and you will probably find that most say the Spit 25lb is the uber plane..

Yet the Spit 25lb ROC performance is less than it should be at most alts, and only over by 11% or so at other alts..

Where as the Bf109K4's ROC performance is better than it should be at all alts, up to 25% more than it should be at some alts..

Which is a good example of why 'relative performance' concept can be such a joke at times..

For example, Pick an altitude, and you can find that one plane's ROC is 20% better than it should be, while another plane's ROC is 10% less than it should be and you end up with a 'relative performance' difference of 30%! That is a lot for the pilot to make up in skill!

So, if 1C (Oleg) can not even get it right at times, I am not surprised that some 3DMAX artiest get it wrong sometimes!