Stability and Control characteristics of the Early Mark Spitfires

[IvanK]

You are the one who started this thread regarding real world Spitfire stability. In your opening post you tell us all that this is to be a discussion on Spitfire stabilty:

"This thread is going to cover the definable and measure stability and control characteristics of the Spitfire. It is not going to cover opinion outside of stability and control engineers.

What this thread is not going to do:

1. Get into a debate about "easy to fly". It is not definable and has no bearing on the measured facts.

2. It is not going to discuss the sustained level turning ability of the aircraft. That is also measurable and definable. For Example, anyone who is capable of doing the math will see that the Spitfire outturns the Bf-109 is steady state constant altitude turns at low velocity."

You then decide its an item for the bugtracker which deals with Sim behaviour. bugtrqacker is for bugs. The onus is on YOU as the thread starter and intended Bug tracker author to prove there is an issue in game.... so far you have not.

When you do make sure its in a definable,measurable and to an accepted standard.

[Crumpp]

When you do make sure its in a definable,measurable and to an accepted standard.

IvanK, all of this is measured, defined, and easy to test in the game.

What question do you have on how to test it?

[IvanK]

None just eagerly awaiting the results of your tests.

[41Sqn_Banks]

[robtek]

One thing that isn't represented in game is the possibility to rip the wings of the Spitfire with a sudden stick movement of about 50% travel at cruise speed, exceeding 10 to 12g this way.

If that would be in game, 80% of bounced Spitfires would loose their wings as the instinctive reaction is to yank at the stick.

According to the tests and pilots handbook it should be that way.

If the wings aren't ripped off at least a immediate hi speed stall with a flick into a spin should occur.

That also isn't so in game, the Spitfire lateral controls are by far not sensible enough.

The ailerons then are too sensible.

[macro]

Do we know what 'g' a spit would break up at?

Interested as not seen this written anywhere. Will look later when home from work unless someone else is bored?

[IvanK]

Other than the Italian fighters (whose design load spec was amongst the highest of all nations in WWII), 12G Symmetrical would most likely result in some sort of structural damage/failure in pretty much any WWII fighter (and just about any current fighter as well). Rolling G damage would occur at very much lower values.

Structural G modelling is in IMO poorly modelled in CLOD and was the subject of debate before release.

This is thread drift though

Edit: Basic Spitfire Design load was 10G. Source : Spitfire at War vol I Ch 19 "Stronger, Safer Swifter" by Eric Newton MBE,Ceng,FRAes

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by robtek

One thing that isn't represented in game is the possibility to rip the wings of the Spitfire with a sudden stick movement of about 50% travel at cruise speed, exceeding 10 to 12g this way.

If that would be in game, 80% of bounced Spitfires would loose their wings as the instinctive reaction is to yank at the stick.

According to the tests and pilots handbook it should be that way.

If the wings aren't ripped off at least a immediate hi speed stall with a flick into a spin should occur.

That also isn't so in game, the Spitfire lateral controls are by far not sensible enough.

The ailerons then are too sensible.

Yeah right, now we are into the theatre of the absurd with claims that at least 80% of Spitfires would lose their wings because tests and the Spitfire Pilot's Notes say so.

I guess that means that the NACA Spitfire V lost its wings or, at the very least, flicked into a high speed stall then spun. I don't see anything in the NACA tests showing this, nor do I see 80% of Spitfire pilots claiming that they lost control, went into a high speed stall and flicked into a spin - unless they were the ones who lost their wings.

[macro]

10g. Blimey thats past blackout isnt it? Will be ok i rarely push it that hard.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by NZtyphoon

Yeah right, now we are into the theatre of the absurd with claims that at least 80% of Spitfires would lose their wings because tests and the Spitfire Pilot's Notes say so.

He said "ingame", and he's right knowing the skill of many players out there (myself too): it's not a matter of plane, it's a matter of how hard they pull the stick.

There was a problem in IL2 1946 v4.10 about the 190s' negative G-force: with the stick's linear setting at 100 you had not to push the stick at high speed at all since the wings would come off (many times it's happended to me and my teammates, and my main KIA reason): instead you could pull as you want.

If I understand correctly Robtek asks to have the same effect linked to the pull up manouvre in a Spitfire (but far weaker compared the one above, that was horrible and I noted that in HSFX6's Hellcats!): in this I fully agree with him.