Stability and Control characteristics of the Early Mark Spitfires

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

AP129 encourages spin training and has a whole chapter devoted to it. Aircraft are placarded against spinning because the specific design had dangerous characteristics.

End of story.

Wrong again. The pilots notes are clear that if you get into a spin the Spitfire will recover normally. You didn't read the words directly after the ones you quoted. Check your own posting 358

Re the P47 practice spins of more than 1/2 turn are banned according to the pilots notes

[Crumpp]

Wrong again.

Which part?

About AP129?? No

Or the Spitfire placarded against spinning? PROHIBITED is the word they use...IIRC.

[Crumpp]

Yes, my memory was correct. PROHIBITED is the right word.

[CaptainDoggles]

I'm sure someone will be along soon enough to say that when it's the Spitfire we're talking about; the pilot instructions don't count because "it was wartime".

[Crumpp]

Stable spin situation have often a link with an aft CG location.

Most common cause of unrecoverable spins....

Gee, the Spitfire is placarded against spins....

What a coincidence Supermarine narrowed the aft CG limits without the installation of bob-weights!!

Must be a conspiracy to castrate English manhood!

[Crumpp]

Anybody take a guess as to why the Spitfire nose goes down from elevator input when recovery begins, and then for one full turn, goes down farther holding input......and then it recovers??

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Anybody take a guess as to why the Spitfire nose goes down from elevator input when recovery begins, and then for one full turn, goes down farther holding input......and then it recovers??

Enlighten me...

[taildraggernut]

interesting account.....

During the Battle of Britain, I often used spins to save my life. I can think of at least four times when
this simple but dramatic manoeuvre of pretending to be shot down came in handy. I used it when I was
attacked by German fighters and had no chance to fight successfully> I usually started with a snap roll,
which culminated in a vertical stabilized spin. I would quickly close and open the throttle, producing
black smoke from the engine exhaust.
To German pilots, a spin was an indication that the Spitfire was out of control. Black smoke confirmed
that the aircraft had been shot down. Why follow and confirm the crash if it meant losing height over
enemy territory? Better to claim one Spitfire shot down!
Evidence after the war indicates that German fighters claimed the destruction of three times more RAF
aircraft than actual RAF losses in combat. So I was spinning happily, recovering at 5,000 feet or so,
and if there was enough gas and ammunition, I would climb again in search of better fighting
opportunities.
One might wonder why anyone would use this manoeuvre. There were situations, especially in the
Battle of Britain, where we were so outnumbered that the Spitfire had no chance. The manoeuvrability
of the Spitfire was so superior to the Me 109 that in a dogfight I considered two or even three Me 109s
equal opponents.

http://www.609wrsquadron.co.uk/Archi...Zurakowski.pdf

Oh but it's another one of those bloody pilots telling stories again....what do they know..

[TomcatViP]

"Normally" does not means that the Spit will recover by itself but that you have to apply normal actions to get out of the spin (note tht there are some planes that recover by them-self).

Your reading is little biased when the line you extracts are only a couple of lines after the one saying that the spin was forbidden.

Limited to 1/2 turn in the 47 means that after half a turn you shld initiate actions to stop the spin and recover. It does not means that you 'd die once the plane past that point. In that case, if the odds are high enough, the Spin IS FORBIDDEN.

Stable spin situation have often a link with an aft CG location. It does not means that you'd die each time you'll get in a spin but more that the time to recover would be too great to be considered a safe practice during training or in a combat situation or might damage the structure.

Anyway, there is nothing to read btw the lines or makes interpretations. Those pilot's notes are written by those that know all about flying a military plane in combat situation.

So, EO Glider, with all my respect, stick by the book or use your imagination to found new ways of pealing the potatoes...

Dismiss !



PS: I hope the joke passed the barrier language. Sgt Tomcat stand ready to eat his hat with some Bearnaise sauce in case it failed

[Glider]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

"Normally" does not means that the Spit will recover by itself but that you have to apply normal actions to get out of the spin (note tht there are some planes that recover by them-self).

Your reading is little biased when the line you extracts are only a couple of lines after the one saying that the spin was forbidden.

Limited to 1/2 turn in the 47 means that after half a turn you shld initiate actions to stop the spin and recover. It does not means that you 'd die once the plane past that point. In that case, if the odds are high enough, the Spin IS FORBIDDEN.

Stable spin situation have often a link with an aft CG location. It does not means that you'd die each time you'll get in a spin but more that the time to recover would be too great to be considered a safe practice during training or in a combat situation or might damage the structure.

Anyway, there is nothing to read btw the lines or makes interpretations. Those pilot's notes are written by those that know all about flying a military plane in combat situation.

So, EO Glider, with all my respect, stick by the book or use your imagination to found new ways of pealing the potatoes...

Dismiss !



PS: I hope the joke passed the barrier language. Sgt Tomcat stand ready to eat his hat with some Bearnaise sauce in case it failed

I actually totally agree with you 100%, there there, it can happen. In the same way the P47 wasn't dangerous to spin, neither was the Spitfire.

Its probably fair to say that the Pilots notes were on the side of caution