FOV settings

[FS~Phat]

Originally Posted by zapatista

there is no complex mathematics involved at all

for 95% of il2/CoD players they sit at roughly an arms length from their flat screen monitors. monitor size for them varies from 19 to 30' , and the viewing distance is determined by the monitor technology (lcd in this case). some sit a little closer then that, some a little further away, but it wont vary by much. hence it is pretty simple for each of those screen sizes (19, 20, 22, 24, 25, 27, and 30) to determine with a basic formula what the correct FoV is, and once set to this value the player can see all ingame objects in their correct sizes, and knowing the object they look at they will know from its size what the distance is. for my 27' pc screen that FoV is 50 or 55, and in il2 i had that set to my "normal" keyboard key, and was able to use quick snap views to 35 or 90 FoV to briefly overcome the limitations of sitting behind a pc monitor rather then look out of a real cockpit in ww2.

the fact a large number of il2/CoD players never made that mental leap results in them either playing in a dinky-toy world where all objects have shrunk (and hence it distorts distance perspective) when set to an artificially wide FoV, or they are playing superman flightsim by giving themselves "magic magnification" eyes to zoom in and spot minuscule objects on the ground no ww2 pilot would ever find.

its a very different experience flying around in the il2/CoD world with the correct FoV and limit yourself to that most of the time, its err well you know, more "real".

it absolutely boggles the mind that luthier has succeeded in leaving out simple well working features that existed in the il2 series, and right now for CoD as a result is PREVENTING people from seeing the CoD in-world objects (and scenery) correctly.

Adony's Viewpoints aside for a second (which are actually all valid - excuse the pun!)

I think you are confusing object scale & distance with FOV and making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I'm also sorry to have to break it to you, but there is absolutely no way a 27" can render anything to actual real life scale with any degree of usable FOV.
You would need a 100" hi res screen to approximate real life scale and FOV properly with a 180degree FOV. Only then would you have a real appreciation for distance and scale which I think your talking about.

It's not ideal that we have to make all these work arounds to get variable FOV but as has been demonstrated there are several ways around it.

The perfect scenario would involve having the screen at the seating distance of the retical as it would be in a real cockpit and the retical to real life scale. Obviously this dictates the need for a massive hi res screen as per above!

I'm afraid I too just don't get the thinking behind your scale and distance argument? Perhaps you could explain it more. Politely of course!

[Artist]

Using Autohotkey, this script enables to assign any desirable FOV between 0-180° (e.g. 22° 45°, 57°) to a key.

Assumption (but you can change that) is that:
"Hold to Adjust Field of View" is assigned to <Alt + Insert>
"Field of View 30°" is assigned to <Strg + Insert>
"Field of View 70°" is assigned to <Strg + Home>
"Field of View 70°" is assigned to <Strg + PageUp>

This example assigns
<Shift + 1> to FOV 10°
<Shift + 2> to FOV 20°
<Shift + 3> to FOV 30°
...
<Shift + 9> to FOV 90°
and
<Shift + z> to increase by 10°
<Shift + x> to decrease by 10°



The most important is

iMousePixelFor10Degrees := 75

which defines that the Mosue has to move 75 pixels to change the FOV by 10°. A value of 75 is fine for my 1920x1200 25,5" Screen. Probably you have to experiment with different values...

#Persistent  ; Keep this script running until the user explicitly exits it.
; =====================================
; Assigning Keys
; =====================================
; Using Shift + Number, Strg + and Alt + combinations do not work, because
;                       Strg and Alt is already used with 
;                       - "Hold to Adjust Field of View" <Alt + Insert>
;                       - "Field of View 30°" <Strg + Insert>
;                       - "Field of View 70°" <Strg + Home>
;                       - "Field of View 70°" <Strg + PageUp>
+1::setFOV(10)
+2::setFOV(20)
+3::setFOV(30)
+4::setFOV(40)
+5::setFOV(50)
+6::setFOV(60)
+7::setFOV(70)
+8::setFOV(80)
+9::setFOV(90)
+Y::zoomFOV(10)
+X::zoomFOV(-10)

return

; =======================================
; useful functions
; =======================================
setView_30(){
    Send ^{Insert}      ; 30°
    return 0
}    
setView_70(){
    Send ^{Home}        ; 70° screen 16:10 or 16:9
    return 0
}    
setView_90(){
    Send ^{PgUp}        ; 90° screen 16:10 or 16:9
    return 0
}
zoomFOV(iByDegrees){
    iMousePixelFor10Degrees := 75   ; Valid on my 25,5" 1920x1200
    
    iMoveX := A_ScreenWidth
    iMoveY := A_ScreenHeight * (iByDegrees > 0 ? -1 : 1)
    DllCall("mouse_event", uint, ciFLAG_MOVE, int, iMoveX, int, iMoveY, uint, 0, int, 0)

    iMoveX := 0
    iMoveY := (iMousePixelFor10Degrees * iByDegrees)/10

    BlockInput, On
    Send !{Insert down}
    DllCall("mouse_event", uint, ciFLAG_MOVE, int, iMoveX, int, iMoveY, uint, 0, int, 0)
    KeyWait %A_ThisHotkey%
    Send !{Insert up}
    BlockInput, Off

    return 0
}
; ==============================================================================
; setFOV by Degrees
; ==============================================================================
setFOV(iDegrees){
    iAdjFOV  := 0
    iDegrees := iDegrees <=0 ? 0 : iDegrees
    iDegrees := iDegrees >=180 ? 180 : iDegrees
    
    if(iDegrees < 50){
        setView_30()
        iAdjFOV := 30 - iDegrees
    }
    else if(iDegrees < 80){
        setView_70()
        iAdjFOV := 70 - iDegrees
    }
    else{
        setView_90()
        iAdjFOV := 90 - iDegrees
    }
    
    if(0 != iAdjFOV){
        zoomFOV(iAdjFOV)
    }
    
    return 0
}

Artist

[FS~Lewis]

Artist..That sounds pretty much what I was trying to achieve.....although being the novice I am I have no idea how to implement what you have described in the script...Where does it go?....How do I put this into the game so that I see it in the controls?....

[Artist]

Originally Posted by FS~Lewis

Artist..That sounds pretty much what I was trying to achieve.....although being the novice I am I have no idea how to implement what you have described in the script...Where does it go?....How do I put this into the game so that I see it in the controls?....

Well, an answer would turn this thread into an autohotkey tutorial, so I'll try to keep this really short: AutoHotkey_L (which I am using) is a program you must download (here) and install. After that you run AutoHotkey-scripts (double-click on a .ahk file) and AutoHotkey will bend and transform keystrokes as defined in the script you run (e.g. transforming a single Shift+1 into a sequence of keystrokes and mouse movements). So it's outside of CloD and just manipulates the input CloD is getting.

[McFeckit]

Ok, I've been following this with great interest but I'm a little confused. I have a 19inch monitor (LCD) and I sit approx 1m from the screen. What FOV should I use to render the world 'real' as in what I would see if I was sitting in a spitfire in real life?

I simply want to see the world as a real spitfire pilot would see it....so which FOV should I use?

Excuse my ignorance but it would be great if the intelligent guys here could help me achieve this.

[Artist]

Originally Posted by McFeckit

I simply want to see the world as a real spitfire pilot would see it....so which FOV should I use?

You'd have to find someone who would let you fly in his real spitfire for that - in other words (assuming you've got no pilot license and a close friend entrusting his Spit to you): impossible ...

... if you do not plan (and be able to finance, build, tackle) a 360° (vertical and horizontal) translucent plexiglas dome with a battery of beamers - and even then it's not the same.

The used FOV is a matter of compromise of realism and feasibility: A 19" rectangle (your monitor) at 1m distance would show (in real life) little more than the sight (try with 20°-30°). That does not make sense at all. The pilot could see the temperature gauges in the lower right corner with a flick of his eyes (not moving the head at all), we - with Freetrack or TrackIR on a 27" monitor - have to move the head.

Go with what you are comfortable with to be able to control the plane, find the enemy, and hit him.

Artist

[McFeckit]

Thanks for your reply Artist. I feel I should have been more specific. I would like to see the outside world, I.e. the world outside the cockpit, to a correct scale as if I was sitting in a spitfire. For example, if a 109 is 200m away in front of my cockpit then I would like to see that 109 rendered to scale such that it woke look the same size as if I was actually sitting in a spit in real life.

I'm at a loss to explain myself more clearly.

Thanks in advance for any light you or anyone else could shed.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by McFeckit

Ok, I've been following this with great interest but I'm a little confused. I have a 19inch monitor (LCD) and I sit approx 1m from the screen. What FOV should I use to render the world 'real' as in what I would see if I was sitting in a spitfire in real life?

I simply want to see the world as a real spitfire pilot would see it....so which FOV should I use?

Excuse my ignorance but it would be great if the intelligent guys here could help me achieve this.

30 degrees is about the correct setting for what you ask there, but... that setting means though you would be flying in a "tunnel vision". CoD has outside view set to 30 degrees and is for obtaining real life type snapshots (screen shots) as you would with a real world camera.

Phat, you won't get an accurate 180 degree field of view on any size flat screen monitor, because the sreen is just that - flat. The screen would need to be curved and perhaps wrap around the viewer, as well, the game/ sim would need to be coded for that, to be free of edge distortion and depth distortion.

Ideally... an almost perfect set up (current technology) I feel, would be that of using several monitors (say 3 for instance) utilising a 90 degree FoV but instead of just setting the FoV for that to 90 degrees (and still suffering the associated distortions) each monitor would be set to use a 30 degree FoV on each. This however, would have to be coded from within the game/sim itself, a minimum size of monitor would also be required and three VGA...

Also to keep in mind, having a "screen" too big with the user sitting too close may cause dizzyness (due to the viewer's real peripheral vision being interfered with) and or eye strain and headaches. An arm's length and bit is a good distance to sit from the monitor, as this also allows a little bit of leaning forward, when coming up to take the shot, with no adverse viewer health risk (dizzyness, eyestrain, headaches)

[FS~Phat]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

30 degrees is about the correct setting for what you ask there, but... that setting means though you would be flying in a "tunnel vision". CoD has outside view set to 30 degrees and is for obtaining real life type snapshots (screen shots) as you would with a real world camera.

Phat, you won't get an accurate 180 degree field of view on any size flat screen monitor, because the sreen is just that - flat. The screen would need to be curved and perhaps wrap around the viewer, as well, the game/ sim would need to be coded for that, to be free of edge distortion and depth distortion.

Ideally... an almost perfect set up (current technology) I feel, would be that of using several monitors (say 3 for instance) utilising a 90 degree FoV but instead of just setting the FoV for that to 90 degrees (and still suffering the associated distortions) each monitor would be set to use a 30 degree FoV on each. This however, would have to be coded from within the game/sim itself, a minimum size of monitor would also be required and three VGA...

Also to keep in mind, having a "screen" too big with the user sitting too close may cause dizzyness (due to the viewer's real peripheral vision being interfered with) and or eye strain and headaches. An arm's length and bit is a good distance to sit from the monitor, as this also allows a little bit of leaning forward, when coming up to take the shot, with no adverse viewer health risk (dizzyness, eyestrain, headaches)

Wolf If you have a look at what I was proposing in another thread here, it was a about a curved rear projection system for that exact reason! So we are in complete agreement!
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=32985