To Oleg or Luthier: 4.09 / mods question

[proton45]

from BearCat:

I totally disagree with that. That statement is assuming the worse.. which the entire anti mod camp myself included at one time did. We assumed that because the sim was hacked that that spelled it's demise and we assumed that all the negative things about mods would be at the forefront and none of the positives... and yes... again... it was not official.. but if i said it once I have said it a thousand times... these mods are not going away ... and not only that... we were flat out wrong... the sky has not fallen in, the sim is not ruined... I am sure Olegs pocket is still getting fatter from 46... The current attitude is just as silly as not recognizing Israel's right to exist by some arab nations... IT EXISTS... and it isnt going anywhere.. and neither are these mods. The enhancements to the QMB, the new maps... that Italy Africa Greece map is a thing of beauty... To toally concentrate on the negatives of the whole issue.. and not the positives..... is naive IMO. Perhaps in 3 or 4 years or who knows 3 0r 4 months , widespread hacks will roam the virtual skies of 1946... and the sim will be ruined.. but it hasn't happened yet.. and frankly.... I will enjoy what I have..... all of it... and I have not taken any money out of Oleg's pocket... people talk about "stealing from the developer".. but I bought my sim... more times than many folks here......... It is a great sim.. still and it has been enhanced by these mods. That's a fact.... and it isn't because of any kind of psychobabble nonsense.. it is because some of those mods are just [really really good.... and we need to get past this.. and move on. Drink the kool aid.. or don't... but don't hate the pitcher.. because it ain't going away. I cant wait for BoB to come out.... I know it will be the best thing smoking.. but in the mean time I am going to enjoy all of 1946 that I can get.. and if another add ion on this engine were to come out.. I'd buy that too.... in the meantime. I am flying what is available to me now..... all of it that appeals to me..... as often as I can.

I feel ya Bearcat, but I don't think your reading what I'm really saying...your response doesn't address any of my concerns.


My point is that many of the mods are far from perfect, and Oleg would end up spending a great deal of time making sure that everything was up to standard (and running smooth). Many people (over at AAA) have problems with the game running smoothly after they installing mods... My point is that people are tolerant of these hick-ups because they are dealing with "hack-mods", if they where made official people would not tolerate "hick-ups in game performance"...

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by proton45

I feel ay Bearcat, but I don't think your reading what I'm really saying...

My point is that many of the mods are far from perfect, and Oleg would end up spending a great deal of time making sure that everything was up to standard (and running smooth). Many people (over at AAA) have problems with the game running smoothly after they installing mods... My point is that people are tolerant of these hick-ups because they are dealing with "hack-mods", if they where made official people would not tolerate "hick-ups in game performance"...

That's exactly the point. As long as this has the charm of a rebellion against the mighty empire, people can even live with the holes in the cockpit when using 6DOF.
Now considering what fuss was made about the 1cm larger bar on the 190, imagine what happens when people who don't know anything about the charm of Luke vs Darth Oleg have to install that patch in order to play with other people. Or take the pictures of the clouds posted above. People would whine because these are the same clouds, just blown up to the point where the minor texture problems become a big mess on the outer rims. Not even daring to speak of the effects on casting shadows on the land below in the right size, too, or the effect when tuning clouds to other types.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by proton45

I feel ya Bearcat, but I don't think your reading what I'm really saying...your response doesn't address any of my concerns.
My point is that many of the mods are far from perfect, and Oleg would end up spending a great deal of time making sure that everything was up to standard (and running smooth). Many people (over at AAA) have problems with the game running smoothly after they installing mods... My point is that people are tolerant of these hick-ups because they are dealing with "hack-mods", if they where made official people would not tolerate "hick-ups in game performance"...

I dunno..... For me thre things I have seen... I like... little things.. and IMO they are improvements to the sim. As I said... the tioned down nav lights.. the reduced dust... ther flyable AI pits are done nicely.. the 6DoF is done nicelyh.. there are not a lot of gaps and holes as we or I thought there would be. IMO from the mods that I have seen.. and those are the onmly ones I can comment on... they have made a great sim even more special. Far from mangling and violating it. I didn't have major issues with the original sounds.. but these new ones sound real good.. at least to me. I for one am not "tolerant" of of "hack mods" .. if it doesnt work well IMO then I don't want it on my HD.... and I dont think I am alone.. so far all the ones in that mod pack I got.. which was not the "official" one on AAA but one put together by another community member for his group, but all those mods only make the sim better.... look at those clouds up there.... look at that Italy Africa Greece map... and tell me that the sim is suffering.. or is violated because of that.. Of course it is all up to individuals.. as to what they want to do.... but after seeing that the online integrity of the sim has not been ruined as I and many others were afraid of.. and there aren't a lot of garbage mods out there that I have seen.. but I am sure they exist.... My needs are pretty simple... I think the sim is damn near perfect even in it's stock form... and like I told the guys over @ AAA , they were acting like they had invented something out of thin air.... Oleg made the platform that they are working on... and they need to be mindful of that and not slag him because without him none of this would be here.

[proton45]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I dunno..... For me thre things I have seen... I like... little things.. and IMO they are improvements to the sim. As I said... the tioned down nav lights.. the reduced dust... ther flyable AI pits are done nicely.. the 6DoF is done nicelyh.. there are not a lot of gaps and holes as we or I thought there would be. IMO from the mods that I have seen.. and those are the onmly ones I can comment on... they have made a great sim even more special. Far from mangling and violating it. I didn't have major issues with the original sounds.. but these new ones sound real good.. at least to me. I for one am not "tolerant" of of "hack mods" .. if it doesnt work well IMO then I don't want it on my HD.... and I dont think I am alone.. so far all the ones in that mod pack I got.. which was not the "official" one on AAA but one put together by another community member for his group, but all those mods only make the sim better.... look at those clouds up there.... look at that Italy Africa Greece map... and tell me that the sim is suffering.. or is violated because of that.. Of course it is all up to individuals.. as to what they want to do.... but after seeing that the online integrity of the sim has not been ruined as I and many others were afraid of.. and there aren't a lot of garbage mods out there that I have seen.. but I am sure they exist.... My needs are pretty simple... I think the sim is damn near perfect even in it's stock form... and like I told the guys over @ AAA , they were acting like they had invented something out of thin air.... Oleg made the platform that they are working on... and they need to be mindful of that and not slag him because without him none of this would be here.

I like some of the stuff I see too...

But all the mods are available and people can add them to their hard drive if they want too...I just don't think that they have to be made into official updates. I think in the long run it would be creating far more work for Oleg and team then they need right now.

If Oleg started including "the mods" in the official up-dates their would be no end to the requests he would start getting. "Oleg could you fix this unrealistic thing?" or "Oleg could you fix the 50cal's?" or "Oleg, so and so says its easy to fix the DM so you have to fix it...", ect...

I want him to finish "BoB SoW"...

[LEXX]

Arrow::

I get that ... I've also spent lot of time with modding, SF/WoV, Silent hunter, Falcon 4.0 - but in the end it always ended in always some tweaking, something was not working right, performance issues, than again reading forums and looking for answers and which mod is incompatible with which. Anyone who wants to do it and has time for it - can do it. But the point I wanted to illustrate was that Il2 alone should be kept as a clean finetuned running sim, which it already is.

Yes, that's prove's my point -- using mods works for some, but not for others.

The modders can't technically do "better" than Oleg, especially with unsupported modding methods, but they create things Oleg never tried to, and so the modders are "better" at creating gaming content. Content creation is the general goal of independent 3rd Party modding.

[LEXX]

Arrow (again )::

But the point I wanted to illustrate was that Il2 alone should be kept as a clean finetuned running sim, which it already is.

I thought more about this, paying better attention I hope. I assume your I-L2 is clean finetuned running sim now without any mods. The mods exist "out there" somewhere else. Mods don't hurt your IL-2. It seems like you made a logic error here, but I don't think so. Instead, you may be thinking of something that we don't know about. For example...

Reading between your lines -- If you are, in your mind, narrowing your point with respect to modding and anonymous public servers, but not telling us this, then we must find out before we can have a discussion (if this is the case). I can see how modding might hurt anonymous public servers, especially innocent Newbies to the sim before they find a private server.

[Arrow]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Arrow (again )::
I thought more about this, paying better attention I hope. I assume your I-L2 is clean finetuned running sim now without any mods. The mods exist "out there" somewhere else. Mods don't hurt your IL-2. It seems like you made a logic error here, but I don't think so. Instead, you may be thinking of something that we don't know about. For example...

Reading between your lines -- If you are, in your mind, narrowing your point with respect to modding and anonymous public servers, but not telling us this, then we must find out before we can have a discussion (if this is the case). I can see how modding might hurt anonymous public servers, especially innocent Newbies to the sim before they find a private server.

I was refering to the request to include the MOds into official patch. The other point I wanted to illustrate is that, the big chunk of MODs can bring more problems than benefits really, but that's everyone's personal choice (with no regard to their illegal nature)

[Feathered_IV]

Almost all of the mods (with the exception of sound samples) are so far nothing more than retextures and tweaks to existing codes. MG would be quite within their rights to adjust their default settings to something similar without being seen to "adopt illegal hacks".

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by proton45

I don't think that anyone has really disputed the quality of the mods, and I don't think anyone expects them to go away...

I respect your enthusiasm, and perhaps its do (in part) to your initial opposition to the "modding community"...but I don't think that the "virility of the modding community" means that the "modding scene" has to be made "legitimate" by incorporating the mods into future patches. The mods are already available for anyone who wants them...I don't think Oleg needs to waist anymore time on the subject.

Alright already........... point taken... and I agree with you... This is what.. the third time you have said the same thing in reference to nme based on one statement in this thread hinting @ incorporating thr mods.. I already said it I dont think it's going to happen and like you said it isn't really even necessary... So can you like... find another issue to press when you qwuote me... please...

[proton45]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Alright already........... point taken... and I agree with you... This is what.. the third time you have said the same thing in reference to nme based on one statement in this thread hinting @ incorporating thr mods.. I already said it I dont think it's going to happen and like you said it isn't really even necessary... So can you like... find another issue to press when you qwuote me... please...

LOL...sorry.

I guess I've had one of "those days"...