To Oleg or Luthier: 4.09 / mods question

[LEXX]

csThor, as you are not the only FB fan, just be careful not to use sloganistic gamer webboard insults against non-modding FB fans who may enjoy mods made by modders.

[csThor]

Your previous post could be read in a way that you consider people opposing modding as non-fans.

But we both made our point. No need to dig deeper.

[LEXX]

Okay! No need to insult Oleg's "other" customers here.


Arrow::

I think that these so called "mods" are just a mess to ruin a stable running sim. Some of them have a lot of work invested in them and I respect that, but from sim compatibility point of view, they are just a mess - that noone of the modders really knows what issue their mods cause in the internal code. From that point of view it is just naive to expect Oleg to include this in his sim. As with all mods, you end up more fiddling with them than playing the game...Just my opinion..

My analogy is the Messy Sandwich. You can get a nice, well behaved "clean" sandwich at say...McDonalds, or a dripping mess sandwich at a real Italian or Polish Deli.

But you are right. You get what you pay for in time invested. Some are willing to spend the time tweaking to satisfy their historical interests, others are not. The tweaking required in this case is probably increased because of the unofficial or "hacked" nature of the modding methods. That, and the modding is still just starting out, in early discovery process so to speak.

Having started out with Oleg's FB as my first modern (Windows) sim, I used to make fun of other sims that required players to "downloading half the internets" to tweak a computer game, until I started a modding project in another sim that no sim developer has ever covered, and I had to download half the internets. But its worth it to put it all together and create something never done before.

[Arrow]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Okay! No need to insult Oleg's "other" customers here.


Arrow::
My analogy is the Messy Sandwich. You can get a nice, well behaved "clean" sandwich at say...McDonalds, or a dripping mess sandwich at a real Italian or Polish Deli.

But you are right. You get what you pay for in time invested. Some are willing to spend the time tweaking to satisfy their historical interests, others are not. The tweaking required in this case is probably increased because of the unofficial or "hacked" nature of the modding methods. That, and the modding is still just starting out, in early discovery process so to speak.

Having started out with Oleg's FB as my first modern (Windows) sim, I used to make fun of other sims that required players to "downloading half the internets" to tweak a computer game, until I started a modding project in another sim that no sim developer has ever covered, and I had to download half the internets. But its worth it to put it all together and create something never done before.

I get that ... I've also spent lot of time with modding, SF/WoV, Silent hunter, Falcon 4.0 - but in the end it always ended in always some tweaking, something was not working right, performance issues, than again reading forums and looking for answers and which mod is incompatible with which. Anyone who wants to do it and has time for it - can do it. But the point I wanted to illustrate was that Il2 alone should be kept as a clean finetuned running sim, which it already is.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by Arrow

I get that ... I've also spent lot of time with modding, SF/WoV, Silent hunter, Falcon 4.0 - but in the end it always ended in always some tweaking, something was not working right, performance issues, than again reading forums and looking for answers and which mod is incompatible with which. Anyone who wants to do it and has time for it - can do it. But the point I wanted to illustrate was that Il2 alone should be kept as a clean finetuned running sim, which it already is.

Well said. I personally don't miss anything with the original.

@ LEXX:

I agreed with csThors posts, because it says a lot about what is currently going on: As you can see with Bearcats statements, peoples minds change. It's no longer good vs evil, the unspeakables against brown-noses and the reason why you get in trouble when posting links to the mods is not because the mods are damned, but because the initial crack was and is illegal.

But while official sides remain silent, the so-called "brown-noses" made their decision or tend to test the mod sooner or later, the modding-community is still fighting loudly against windmills. And it IS just like csThor put it: This self-shoulder-padding of some people showing MG how easy it is to fix problems with IL2 (even on this board!) is just as misplaced as it is unfair. And this Rebellion against the evil Olegian Empire story is just ridiculous, sorry.

I've been active in the F4-modding-community for a long time, now, and though the modders did an awesome job making the game much better as it initially was, the idea of making the job better than the original programmers did themselves was new to me until this modding-thing with IL2 arose.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by csThor

BC ... you've gone a long way to a mack cheerleader. Why is it so hard to understand that Oleg can't and won't give them his blessing? Not going to happen so bringing up the point is just

a) pointless
b) prone to bring up the old discussions again

I don't think anyone here really believes that the macks are going to go away if they only pray enough, but these "Oleg please incorporate ..." posts aren't exactly helpful to board peace, either. They're just pointless.
And, judging by the self-righteous attitude and the shoulder clapping I see in "The Dark Side Boards", I cannot help but agree with what proton45 said. There are enough folks over there who'd like to cultivate themselves a "Robin Hood" image and who consider Maddox Games part of the "evil big corporations" who dare to keep features from the "poor little flight simmer".

I doubt if Oleg would use any of them either.. but some of them IMO are worthy.. but thats just my opinion... which is just mine. As for Bob.. I really think that BoB will be so good that when it does come out even the folks who want to fly in other theaters will still buy it. I think the sim will be so revolutionary and just so plain old good that it will sell like hotcakes. I believe Oleg said that it would be partly moddable for off line use. I know it will be on my HD the day it is released.. as was FB, the AEP, PF,Pe-2, and 46..

I am just being a realist Thor... thats all.

AS for the attitude of many on the AAA boards.. well I have to totally agree with you there Thor... and I told them as much when one of their members started talking about how dead the UBI forums were.. which they aren't... and then the whole litany of "the UBI noobs" "If Oleg gave us BoB it would be done" etc etc came out. Truth be told for all the trash they talk many of the members are just leeches.. they take take take and don't even support the site... which is a shame really. My posts on the issue were removed.. but I do agree that ther is an elitist mentality over there.. and of the over 10000 members I bet less than 1/10 is supporting the site either with work as in mods or $$$ in doantions to keep it running.

[JG52Uther]

I doubt Oleg would ever use any of the mods developed from AAA for il2,and thats fine with me,as I want Oleg to concentrate on SoW.il2 is dead to Oleg.

BC I agree with you about the lack of the donations there.Some of the most vocal on the site are the ones who give nothing.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

I doubt Oleg would ever use any of the mods developed from AAA for il2,and thats fine with me,as I want Oleg to concentrate on SoW.il2 is dead to Oleg.

BC I agree with you about the lack of the donations there.Some of the most vocal on the site are the ones who give nothing.

Did you read where Oleg refering to SOW said, you want your Son to have along life. I don't think that Oleg views IL2 as dead, only views it as a child of his violated and mangled by some who are never happy, they always wanting more, and more