Radiator drag

[JG52Uther]

Can you please stop sniping at each other.

[Osprey]

Sorry, I was just trying to save time

[Crumpp]

Sorry, I was just trying to save time

No you were not Osprey. You just don't like the fact I don't agree with you on some things.

Grow up.

First of all, it does not make a bit of difference to "test" something and then completely invalidate the effort because of ignorance.

I am not calling anyone ignorant so don't turn it into that. There is a reason why aeronautical engineering efforts are teams in the real world. There is a lot of details that can bite you.

Now, there are some knowledgeable and experienced people on these boards.

You want the dev's to listen and make your favorite gameshape as easy for you to live out your ace fantasy as possible, right?

1C knows what they are doing in terms of aircraft performance. The fact they have adjusted the FM's once says they are concerned. Now, you are saying after all the time they just spent adjusting things....it is completely wrong. Based on what??

Whines waste time and more importantly money to a company. The people at 1C are paid and the company estabilished the boards to save some of that money by cutting down on the number of wild goose chases they send their people on.

If you want to be listenend too then raise legitimate issues. The first thing is is to determine if there is an issue in the first place.

Aircraft performance is dependant upon conditions. Without the conditions, what IvanK posted is interesting like an art gallery is interesting but not very useful for making any conclusions about specific aircraft performance.

1. Determine the atmospheric conditions in the game- that is the first priority. If it is not correct, anything else is a pointless waste of time.

[bongodriver]

1. Determine the atmospheric conditions in the game- that is the first priority. If it is not correct, anything else is a pointless waste of time

and the reason we can't enjoy the fruits of your very qualified analysis is because?...............

[Osprey]

I see you took on board what Uther was saying then Crumpp.

[phoenix1963]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

1. Determine the atmospheric conditions in the game- that is the first priority. If it is not correct, anything else is a pointless waste of time.

What twaddle, Crumpp you need to distinguish between first and second order effects. Some simple corrections for the "actual" CloD atmosphere are not difficult. Some slight error in a model based on this data would have negligible effect on overall peformance in the scheme of things.

What is lovely about this is some REAL data on a small part of the contribution to performance. However it looks like the data in (winter?) temperate climes has been extrapolated to others, maybe a prediction for overseas performance. Perhaps the basis for a sensible extrapolation to other altitudes in the CloD models.

The very fact that it's labelled "temperate" should suggest to you that small variations in temperature are a fairly minor effect on drag due to the radiator, compared to overall drag - a second order effect.

Get a grip on what is and isn't important!

56RAF_phoenix

[Crumpp]

The very fact that it's labelled "temperate" should suggest to you that small variations in temperature are a fairly minor effect on drag due to the radiator, compared to overall drag - a second order effect.

What twaddle?? The only twaddle is people being agressive and running their mouth without facts.

Conditions in England in August are not far from standard depending on the time of day.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/...q_statename=NA

So the graph is meaningless without specific information.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

So the graph is meaningless without specific information.

Not sure if I would go that far. The results appear to be parallel, i.e. linearly translated, so it would seem to me that we can conclude that differing conditions do not have a significant effect on radiator drag. The relative difference between Closed and Open 6 Notches remains about 5 mph at approx. 20000 feet in each curve.

What I would like to see is a comparison for different altitudes.

[Crumpp]

109 data.

I. For what it's worth, French trials of 109E suggest the following figures:

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_test...formanceT.html

Bf 109E-3 at 5000m, OPEN radiators, 2400 rpm and 870mm Hg boost: 520 km/h
Bf 109E-3 at 5000m, CLOSED radiators, 2400 rpm and 880mm Hg boost: 570 km/h

If you line up the altitudes and look at the manifold pressures the French recorded, they used higher manifold pressure's when the closed radiator test was conducted.

That means the speed gap between open and closed due to radiator drag is not as wide as their results.

[klem]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Not sure if I would go that far. The results appear to be parallel, i.e. linearly translated, so it would seem to me that we can conclude that differing conditions do not have a significant effect on radiator drag. The relative difference between Closed and Open 6 Notches remains about 5 mph at approx. 20000 feet in each curve.

What I would like to see is a comparison for different altitudes.

And so we should not start splitting hairs. There are considerably larger incorrect level speed figures in the Hurricane at the moment (nearly 60mph @ 20,000ft?). 5mph might matter in a tail chase but in terms of combat performance it means almost nothing. It may be more significant at lower altitudes though.