Horton

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

You are argueing like Ace. In that you take some ppl and their inventions and make them the creators of the applications derived of those, completly neglecting the point that what it is all about is brining new inventions together to really create something never seen before.

You have that 180 out..

Allow me.. The premise that I am working from here is the history channel types of history that one sees being stated as true history is anything but..

And my goal is to point that out each and every time I see it come up.. For true histories sake

In that the history channel types of history, that sells, is to portray the Me262, Go229 and V2as something that appeared out of thin air. That is to say the history channel type of history gives those watching, who don't know any better, the impression that nobody in the world knew what a rocket was until a V2 hit a target.. Or that nobody knew what a jet was until the Me262 shot down a B17.. Or that nobody in the world knew what a flying wing was until the US captured the Go229 and that Northrop reversed engineered it to build the B2

I have simply pointed out here that all these systems were build on previous work! That is to say they didn't appear out of thin air in Germany one day due to the worked of a German scientists nor was the technology passed onto the Germans via aliens

With that said

Robert Goddard was building rockets in the 20s, 30s and 40s
The US and UK had jet fighters in operation during WWII
Jack Northrop was building flying wings in the 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s

So all this stuff (V2 rocket, Me262 fighter, Go229 Flying Wing) was done way before the Germans did it during WWII, as in it did not just appear one day out of thin air

About the only thing mentioned in this thread that was unique to one nation was the development and employment of an atomic bomb.. And you can bet your bottom dollar splinting atoms to make a bomb was a much bigger achievement than the natural progression of the technology mentioned above.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

You have that 180 out..

Allow me.. The premise that I am working from here is the history channel types of history that one sees being stated as true history is anything but..

And my goal is to point that out each and every time I see it come up.. For true histories sake

In that the history channel types of history, that sells, is to portray the Me262, Go229 and V2as something that appeared out of thin air. That is to say the history channel type of history gives those watching, who don't know any better, the impression that nobody in the world knew what a rocket was until a V2 hit a target.. Or that nobody knew what a jet was until the Me262 shot down a B17.. Or that nobody in the world knew what a flying wing was until the US captured the Go229 and that Northrop reversed engineered it to build the B2.

I have simply pointed out here that all these systems were build on previous work! That is to say they didn't appear out of thin air in Germany one day due to the worked of a German scientists nor was the technology passed onto the Germans via aliens

Wrong premise then, we had that before. There are no history channel kids here, ppl know "how" things develop. But if you go by this, I hope you also make sure in discussions that the Wright flyers or Bell also did not invent their stuff out of thin air.

And btw, The Go229 was not the first wing the Hortens did.

With that said

Robert Goddard was building rockets in the 20s, 30s and 40s
The US and UK had jet fighters in operation during WWII
Jack Northrop was building flying wings in the 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s

The UK had in the Meteor, which hardly surpassed conventional prop driven fighters of that time. The US had 4 pre production YP80ies in Italy that never saw any action. The P80 was a great design, but jet engines and later wingtip tanks aside, very orthodox.
The british had the Vampire, but it only got into service after WW2. Added to that, all these allied aircraft had centrifugal jet engines, probably better suited for fast production with WW2 technology, but ultimately a dead end.

So all this stuff (V2 rocket, Me262 fighter, Go229 Flying Wing) was done way before the Germans did it during WWII, as in it did not just appear one day out of thin air

You said that before, but I yet have to see your examples of allied ballistic missles, swept wing jet fighters and jet powered flying wings. Convince me.

About the only thing mentioned in this thread that was unique to one nation was the development and employment of an atomic bomb.. And you can bet your bottom dollar splinting atoms to make a bomb was a much bigger achievement than the natural progression of the technology mentioned above.

Funny. I thought your line of argument was that "nothing" comes out of thin air?
Then you may want to study history in regards to the nuclear development and the bomb itself a bit more thoroughly.

Double standarts in action.

[bongodriver]

all these allied aircraft had centrifugal jet engines, probably better suited for fast production with WW2 technology, but ultimately a dead end.

Not true, centrifugal compressors are very much alive and well, most small turbines have retained them because they are perfect for reducing size, there are a few turbofan engines that use centrifugal cores, quite a few turboprops for the same size reason, centrifugal compressors are less prone to surge.....not such a dead end, axial flow compressors simply reduce the size of the frontal face area to give the low profile desireable for sleek high speed designs but don't offer massive advantages in any other areas.

but I yet have to see your examples of allied ballistic missles, swept wing jet fighters and jet powered flying wings. Convince me.

Like I said, the rest of the world wasn't in a hurry for war.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Not true, centrifugal compressors are very much alive and well, most small turbines have retained them because they are perfect for reducing size, there are a few turbofan engines that use centrifugal cores, quite a few turboprops for the same size reason, centrifugal compressors are less prone to surge.....not such a dead end, axial flow compressors simply reduce the size of the frontal face area to give the low profile desireable for sleek high speed designs but don't offer massive advantages in any other areas.

Let me specify. Dead end for high performance fighter aircraft.

Like I said, the rest of the world wasn't in a hurry for war.

No? The Russians and the Japanese had quite some fun before WW2 in this regard.
Or do you, in typical anglo saxon manner, consider Britian "the rest of the world"?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

typical anglo saxon manner

Sorry to butt in, but yes. That's our Germanic invader's influences and came after our Roman invader's influences. The French invader's influences only came about later, in around erm..1066 I think.

Edit: Forgot to mention the Scandinavian invader's influences which were spread throughout most of that period. Sorry.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

Sorry to butt in, but yes. That's our Germanic invader's influences and came after our Roman invader's influences. The French invader's influences only came about later, in around erm..1066 I think.

touché

[159th_Jester]

[video]

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Wrong premise then, we had that before. There are no history channel kids here, ppl know "how" things develop.

Disagree 100%

But you are welcome to your opinion! S!