Horton

[tools4fools]

All I do is quote STORMBIRDS

Nope. You don't only quote them - you even know why those pages are 'under construction'.

So even STORMBRIDS had/has trouble making the wiki link types of connections

Once more, this is nothing but an assumption on your side. No fact, no quote.
You just suck it out of your fingers.

When I stated the wings of the Me262 were swept to correct the cg

Only the outer wings as we have seen. As the rest of the world sees at least. But maybe not you with your tunnel vision.

If there was any proof to support your faith based claims

Faith based claims?
You are funny.
Maybe you could present your 'hard facts' on the inner wing sweep?
Or Goddards 'working ballistic missile'?

Until then:

In that it was all done before by Robert Goddard

Links to his working ballistic missile please.

This is facts, btw:

Hubert Ludewieg of the High-Speed Aerodynamics Branch at the AVA Göttingen in 1939 conducted the first wind tunnel tests to investigate Busemann's theory.[2] Two wings, one with no sweep, and one with 45 degrees of sweep were tested at Mach numbers of 0.7 and 0.9 in the 11 x 13 cm wind tunnel. The results of these tests confirmed the drag reduction offered by swept wings at transonic speeds.[2] The results of the tests were communicated to Albert Betz who then passed them on to Willy Messerschmitt in December 1939. The tests were expanded in 1940 to include wings with 15, 30 and -45 degrees of sweep and Mach numbers as high as 1.21.

This is faith; or even fake:

And the high speed wind tunnel testing the Germans were working on was for planes flying faster than that.. Which is why they did not immediately make the connection that a swept wing is beneficial at sub sonic speeds.

Completely untrue, not supported by links or facts, just existing in your beautiful mind.
Faith you have, indeed, to the point where you twist bend and distort the facts. That's when it turns into fake.
And you complain about history channel? You are no better than them, even worse maybe.

But as we now know the wings were swept to correct the cg and not to take advantage of swept wing theory/technology

Still false.
Only the outer wing was swept for correct of CoG as we have seen.

Have a faithful day.
++++

[Jaws2002]

Intentional or not, the Germans aknowledged the advantages of swept wing and built on it.
Like it or not, they were the pioneers of swept wing design and everyone else copied them. FACT.

[AndyJWest]

they were the pioneers of swept wing design

Not really:


Swept wings had been around for a long time.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by tools4fools

Faith based claims?
You are funny.
Maybe you could present your 'hard facts' on the inner wing sweep?

Ah, After reading that statement by you

I think I realized why you are so confused about the difference between proof vs. faith based proof.

Allow me..

You claim the inner wings were NOT swept to correct the cg, and that they were swept to take advantage of swept wing theory

What is this claim of yours based on?

As in what is your proof to support your claim?

Once you answer that..

I think it will not only be clear to you

But clear to all that 'your' reason the inner wings were swept is 'faith' based.

Which IMHO is the reason why STORMBRIDS did not make the same claim 'your' making..

In that their reputation requires them to stick to things they can prove

Which is based on all the data they reviewed during the process of building Me262s from scratch.

Which you can rest assured consists of more data than your wiki links!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Jaws2002

Intentional or not, the Germans acknowledged the advantages of swept wing and built on it.
Like it or not, they were the pioneers of swept wing design and everyone else copied them. FACT.

First things first

No one I know is saying the Germans were not pioneers in supersonic swept wing theory!

All I am saying is what STORMBRIDS and many others are saying

That the Me262 was NOT the first swept wing jet fighter design with the intent from the start of the design process to sweep the wings to take advantage of swept wing theory!

As we all know the Me262 stared out as a straight wing design!

The 'reason' the wings were swept was to correct the cg due to the heaver than expected engines.

Prior to the end of the war, the Germans were working on some designs that were intended to take advantage of swept wing theory, because at some point during the war they realized Busemann and Walchner published work titled "Profile Characteristics at SUPERSONIC Speed" also applied to slower speeds (as in less than SUPERSONIC, SUBSONIC)

On that note supersonic swept wing theory was no secret!

In that prior to the war a conference on high speed flight held in Rome where Busemann gave a lecture title "Aerodynamic Lift at SUPERSONIC Speed".

So everyone knew about swept wing theory prior to the war!

On that note STORMBRIDS had this to say about the conference in Rome

Originally Posted by STORMBIRDS

The real surprise then is why was this knowledge of the swept wing not taken advantage of worldwide before it was experimentally proven on the Me 262. The only plausible (if somewhat vague) explanation was the resistance to new ideas found in all scientific circles

As you can see they concluded, as many who have worked in aerospace know, changing the 'status quo' can be a slow process sometimes

But there are other reasons!

For one at that time there were no piston or jet engines that would come close to propelling a fighter or bomber to supersonic speeds, thus it was not a real viable option from the start, which could also explained why there was no initial interest and probably why everyone stuck to what they knew worked.

[tools4fools]

This is from orig source from Development of the Swept Wing 1935-1945, AIAA Library of Flight, 2010, as I posted way above, ignored as usual by you as it doesn't fit your believe.

Hubert Ludewieg of the High-Speed Aerodynamics Branch at the AVA Göttingen in 1939 conducted the first wind tunnel tests to investigate Busemann's theory.[2] Two wings, one with no sweep, and one with 45 degrees of sweep were tested at Mach numbers of 0.7 and 0.9 in the 11 x 13 cm wind tunnel. The results of these tests confirmed the drag reduction offered by swept wings at transonic speeds.[2] The results of the tests were communicated to Albert Betz who then passed them on to Willy Messerschmitt in December 1939. The tests were expanded in 1940 to include wings with 15, 30 and -45 degrees of sweep and Mach numbers as high as 1.21.

So by 1942 they knew what they were doing. Plus then there were the 262 flight tests that showed the advantage of the swept wing, as on Stormbirds webpage.
So by 42-43 when the inner wing was swept, they knew the advantges of swept wings.

On top of that we have seen that only the inner wing was swept early in development to correct for CoG as we have seen in the link about wing design of the 262 which I posted several times above.

So I have always showed what my claims were based on.

You better start reading for once, and not only what you like.

Now could you comment on this lie of yours:

And the high speed wind tunnel testing the Germans were working on was for planes flying faster than that.. Which is why they did not immediately make the connection that a swept wing is beneficial at sub sonic speeds.

You have never supported this with any factual proof. You just sucked it out of your fingers.

In that it was all done before by Robert Goddard

You still seem not to be able to come up with anything to support your claim that Goddard build a working ballistic missile.
Faithful believes, not supported by any sources.

The 'reason' the wings were swept was to correct the cg due to the heaver than expected engines.

Only the outer wing.
Only the outer wing.
Look at the wing design progress linked at least twice already.
Look at the wing design progress linked at least twice already.

The wing was straight, then it was swept in the outer part to correct for CoG, then the engines got on the wing...and then 42-43, by the time additional research had been done and they had access to it and they had tested lower speeds and less wing sweep, then the inner wing was swept.

And please for once could you tell me how come you know why that link in the Stormbirds webpage is still under construction?

Facts for this please. Not more BS which you just imagine.

And no, by shouting louder and writing bigger and in red, your faithful creations and manipulations won't disappear and your unanswered questions will not be answered.

The louder is right works in the kindergarden but not here.
+++++

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by tools4fools

Only the outer wing.

You say that..

But just saying it does not qualify it as proof!

Clearly your basing your statement off the info you provided..

Information that STORMBIRDS has access to..

So why didn't the folks at STORMBIRDS say what your saying?

Or should we ask..

What do you know about the Me262 development that the folks at STORMBIRDS does NOT know?

I think we would all agree that the answer is NOTHING!