FW190 FM Change

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by Z1024

There is no ground take off in QMB. It always starts mid-air. Are you sure quick missions start with the warm engine?
Either way, in my tests(on the Crimea map, 100m alt) D9 MW50 overheats in 1:05m, La7 in 1:30 and Spit 25lbs in 1:55m. (all closed/auto radiator)

So 4.11 Dora is seriously crippled not only top speed wise, but also engine endurance wise as well.

Another interesting observation - the spit flew full 19 mins @110% before the engine died and it didn't show any signs of damage until maybe 12min into flight. D9 died in ~3:30 and La7 in 4:30. I understand that the time to failure is not fixed in this new patch, but still, these are the figures I got.


Sorry but Jumo213A IS liquid cooled and it was rated for 30 min at that rpm.
Now that might look high, but Junkers engineers allowed that, so they probably knew their engine better and knew what they were doing.


I just leave pitch at auto and control in with the throttle.
My problem is not that it overheats, but that water cooled Dora overheats faster than air cooled La7 and much faster than water cooled Spitfire 25lbs.
This is not correct, besides, MW50 should actually cool the engine, and increase its efficiency.

- you can always use full mission builder to make your own mission and take off from the ground.

- okay, so it's water cooled. whatever. 30 minutes, whatever. it's virtual. there is no water, there is no air, there is no plane. it is all pretend.

- iirc, the 213 is modified/beefed up 211. the 211 had much lower rpm power band. the point is 3250 is a high rpm for piston engine, creates a lot of heat no matter water cooled or not, and you can't expect to cruise around in your plane like that. that's not what the high rpm part of the power band is for.

- even if there is a cooling effect from mw50 and the engine is water cooled, it is not enough to overcome the additional heat caused by running the engine at 3250 rpms! eventually, there is no more heat exchange with the oil, radiator water and outside air. The engine just keeps getting hotter and bad things start to happen to the engine.

-i forgot to mention, to engage the mw50, your supposed to reduce your throttle first or you get engine damage. unless they changed that in 4.11. but I fly up3 rc4 based on 4.10.

[JtD]

Il-2 compare date is not corrected to standard conditions, full throttle altitudes are lower than they are in real life data corrected to standard conditions. This effects speeds.

I have no intention of discussing the La-7 in a Fw 190 flight model topic.

Time limits and temperature limits are separate limits, they are about as related as dive and load limits.

You should install 4.11.1.

[Z1024]

Originally Posted by JtD

Il-2 compare date is not corrected to standard conditions, full throttle altitudes are lower than they are in real life data corrected to standard conditions. This effects speeds.

What are the standard conditions then and what is the value of IL2Compare if they are not indicative of the il2 plane specs?

I can't achieve even the il2 compare speeds in a FW - usually 25-30kmh slower. In a La-7 the it is only 5kmh slower.

Originally Posted by JtD

I have no intention of discussing the La-7 in a Fw 190 flight model topic.

Fine, I might create a new topic.

I am using 4.11.1m

[[URU]BlackFox]

Originally Posted by Z1024

I can't achieve even the il2 compare speeds in a FW - usually 25-30kmh slower. In a La-7 the it is only 5kmh slower.

I made a few tests of the Fw-190A-9 in the Smolensk map (that's where the flight data from Il2Compare applies, so I just flew a QMB mission there), and with rad closed, full power, a little rudder to compensate, elevator trim + a little joystick, and manual pitch to get between 2600-2700 RPM, I got a TAS (I know what you see inside the cockpit is IAS) of ~605 Kmph at ~1500m (and I'm not a very good pilot so someone with a better touch and knowledge can surely do better). So the numbers in Il2Compare can be achieved IMHO.

Wether some planes reach max speed faster, or can do it without so much manhandling is a different subject and I'm not qualified to have an opinion there.

Anyway, the Fw-190 feels quite different from previous versions of the game, and I'm having a blast flying it (and suffering it greatly when it's on my 6).

[Z1024]

Originally Posted by [URU]BlackFox

I made a few tests of the Fw-190A-9 in the Smolensk map (that's where the flight data from Il2Compare applies, so I just flew a QMB mission there), and with rad closed, full power, a little rudder to compensate, elevator trim + a little joystick, and manual pitch to get between 2600-2700 RPM, I got a TAS (I know what you see inside the cockpit is IAS) of ~605 Kmph at ~1500m (and I'm not a very good pilot so someone with a better touch and knowledge can surely do better). So the numbers in Il2Compare can be achieved IMHO.

Wether some planes reach max speed faster, or can do it without so much manhandling is a different subject and I'm not qualified to have an opinion there.

Anyway, the Fw-190 feels quite different from previous versions of the game, and I'm having a blast flying it (and suffering it greatly when it's on my 6).

That's good but I was mainly talking about D9 Late @ sea level. According to IL2 Compare A9 should go 610km/h at 1500 so you're pretty close. Not sure if manual pitch should be required given that German planes had a komnandaggregat or something - basically a controller or governor - some difficult German word.
Anyway, try the same with D9 Late at sea level. I couldn't achieve more than 570km/h (should be ~600). In La-7 however I was able to reach ~600 pretty easily (Il2Cmp figure is 605)

[[URU]BlackFox]

I tested it but going down to sea level was a little difficult in Smolensk. I just followed a river that went fairly straight on, and found that in Fw-190D_Late, with rad closed, pitch auto, WEP on, no cockpit (to see TAS), I got a sustained ~590Kmph speed. Still short of the figures in Il2Compare, but better than the 570 you mentioned.

Reaching that speed was, however, really painful in level flight, and the overheat message appeared quite fast. The engine went on for several minutes without losing AtA or RPMs, so maybe the message comes in too quickly. I never fly in this conditions when in combat, so I have hardly seen the overheat message before, and have no idea about it's accuracy.

About the La, I didn't have the time to test it in the same manner. Maybe I can today after work.

[K_Freddie]

I apologise for my 5000+ hrs of combat flying experience..
Non the less I have real life stuff to attend to

[Z1024]

It looks like when you take off from the ground it does not overheat very quickly. I could climb for at least 3-4 min with 110% + MW50 without getting an overheat message.
Haven't tested other planes.
However if I fly QMB or on a server with airstart - it does overheat very quickly - quicker than most other planes (actually all I've tested). And this doesn't look right because Germans allowed 3250rpm for 30min and MW50 for 10 min at a time, which is longer than La7's WEP mode (5min) for example, yet Dora overheats sooner in the game. Liquid cooled engines (such as D9s Jumo213A) enjoy more uniform cooling than the radial engines (such as La7s ASh-82FN) It is more difficult to arrange the airflow to cool both the front and back sets of cylinders. The back one overheats more. And yet in the game D9 overheats faster than La7 which did have these problems with quick overheating in the WEP mode.

But my main problem with D9, like I said earlier - is that its engine dies after ~10-15 min of intense/combat mode flight. This happens ONLY to D9s - at some point it displays the overheat message and then quickly dies. This is not a MW50/boost related issue as I flew a mission without engaging it even once and it still died the same way. I don't think I over-rev the engine because I use auto pitch and even in a full powered dive when the plane approaches 900km/h the RPM indicator still shows around 3200 (maybe 3250) - and I never exceed maybe 850 in a dive, and usually reduce the throttle to zero when diving faster than 750.
This behavior is new in 4.11 (and still exists in 4.11.1). It only happens to D9s - Antons, 109s, Spit, Ki84 - I fly them all in the same way and never have this problem with those planes.
Something was changed in the D9s FM or the bigger change to engine overheat model affected only Doras in this way.