Throwing some light on rates of turn

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

@Crumpp -- I agree that something serious should have broken (or at least bent) with a hard "assymmetrical" (is that the right term? Dunno!) pullout such as you did. Did you black out during the pullout? My reason for asking is that other threads are noting that full control surface deflection is not being achieved with the Spitfire under random circumstances. That would've resulted in a gentler pullout than you had intended, provided you had enough altitude to recover. But if you did experience blackout in the pullout that would be a fair indicator that the elevator was indeed doing its job as you intended -- and something should've gone crunch IMHO. (I've crunched lotsa virtual Spits and Hurries in Cliffs of Dover LOL).

Just now I tested a spit 1, dive at 400mph indicated and I pulled back as hard as possible, with a full rudder. Nothing broke, and my pilot blacked out momentarily. Although at 430mph dive, I broke the spit 2a wing.

It seems to me the limit is between 400 and 430mph (taking both variants to be roughly equivalent.)

I made videos of both. happy to distribute the track file if necessary for proof.

[Crumpp]

Looks like you are doing some intense testing there Crumpp. Maybe a test pilot in a former life.

LOL, Not really...that test would be a death sentence in a real aircraft.

It was a simple test. If you are above ~238mph EAS you should be able to break the airframe in a Spitfire Mk I with a single axis load.

By assymetrically loading the airframe, that speed is greatly reduced. The airframe should turn to confetti.

A dive over 300 mph EAS at full control deflection with an assymetrical load is pretty definative and easy to do.

[Crumpp]

Did you black out during the pullout?

It started too as I reached the top of the apex of the loop. It did not black out though.

[Crumpp]

I believe Crumpp is simply referring to incipient spin occurring upon accelerated stall -- which is apparently happening too easily and viciously (for a 109) since the latest patch.

That is it.

LE slats are the aerodynamic equivilent of training wheels. Putting them at the wing tips like the Bf-109 does not do much for raising anything more than the section co-efficient of lift but it does keep the ailerons responsive, make for very good stall characteristics, and it is one of the best anti-spin devices a designer can use.

The stall characteristics of the Bf-109 are very gentle, controllable, and offers plenty of warning:

4.4. Stalling Tests.

http://kurfurst.org/Tactical_trials/...ls/Morgan.html

[Crumpp]

Are there V-n diagrams for these aircraft available online anywhere?

Not that I am aware of but you can easily make one.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Not that I am aware of but you can easily make one.

Yeah, but I'm moving across the country in a week, so I don't really have the time at the moment

[JTDawg]

Can anyone else see those brains working from here!! lol

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

LOL, Not really...that test would be a death sentence in a real aircraft.

It was a simple test. If you are above ~238mph EAS you should be able to break the airframe in a Spitfire Mk I with a single axis load.

By assymetrically loading the airframe, that speed is greatly reduced. The airframe should turn to confetti.

A dive over 300 mph EAS at full control deflection with an assymetrical load is pretty definative and easy to do.

Are there V-n diagrams for these aircraft available online anywhere?

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

LOL, Not really...that test would be a death sentence in a real aircraft.

It was a simple test. If you are above ~238mph EAS you should be able to break the airframe in a Spitfire Mk I with a single axis load.

By assymetrically loading the airframe, that speed is greatly reduced. The airframe should turn to confetti.

A dive over 300 mph EAS at full control deflection with an assymetrical load is pretty definative and easy to do.

what are the equivalent EAS numbers for the 109? similar?

[drewpee]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

LOL, Not really...that test would be a death sentence in a real aircraft.

It was a simple test. If you are above ~238mph EAS you should be able to break the airframe in a Spitfire Mk I with a single axis load.

By assymetrically loading the airframe, that speed is greatly reduced. The airframe should turn to confetti.

A dive over 300 mph EAS at full control deflection with an assymetrical load is pretty definative and easy to do.

LOL that's why I said in a previous life.