B24D Project for IL2

[JollySam]

Originally Posted by Buster_Dee

I had started with a B17 years ago, but before I could get it going, T4T (Targetware) asked me to switch to the B24. I was modeling every compartment for a J, but I was having a heck of a time capturing the dome on the MPC tail turret, and the Emerson was even more complex (nothing is hidden so needs to be modeled). I had only a bare start for the waist and bombardier. I dropped the project several years ago. Early war actually interests me more, so when Guse came along with a nice D nose project, I thew my hat back in. Everything I had done before had to be redone, but it's been worth it.

I see. OK, thanks. I ask because most mods and patches focus on making the existing AI planes flyable, rather than making a whole new aircraft. You're all quite brave in starting a whole new plane from scratch! And it would be a pity to throw away that nose section.

Keep up the good work!

[Buster_Dee]

LoL. I don't think we'll be talking Guse out of that nose anytime soon. That said, the J is not out of the question--as was stated earlier. It does mean a new pit and nose. If we were to model the early J from Consolidated at San Diego, we could re-use the tail turret I did. I fear that most fans would argue that the J never looked like that, which is not true. The "preferred" MPC (or SAC-7 offshoot) and Emerson turrets were in short supply at first, and Consolidated, San Diego seems to have stayed with their home-brewed Consol turrets even after the other production facilities made the switch. If I recall correctly, the Emerson made it's debut in the H built by Ford. The Js actually lagged that, using MPCs in the nose (and San Diego the Consul as mentioned), not switching to Emersons until later. The in-game bird has the MPC tail (A6B) and Emerson nose (A15). I think they were more common, but they were not exclusive. Our turret is the A6A.

As a side note, the Emerson was electric; the others were hydraulic. When the hydraulic turrets were used in the nose, they had to "steal" hydraulic pressure from the aicraft's main system because there was not enough room in the nose to have a dedicated pump/system as had the tail. I wonder if that arrangment compromised any of the other systems that used hydraulic pressure.

[JollySam]

Hmm, all these different factories making different designs for the same parts must make research a hassle. I'm actually more interested in the 'D' too, but its useful that some of your work can be reused for any further B-24 versions.

Out of interest, did American planes have some kind of back-up system in case the hydraulic system for the turrets failed?

[Buster_Dee]

Well, backup as in manual control, but I don't know how effective it was. Look in most turrets, you'll often see two short, 4-sided shafts, with cranks clipped somewhere to work them. The A6A's cranks are at the top of the frame in front of the gunner (the red ones), and the shafts are on each side wall, sitcking out of some kind of gear box. In this turret, the left one is for elevation, the right one for azimuth. There would have been some kind of feature that let you, then, fire the guns with a foot control (since you're hands are tied up). The Martin had two cranks hanging down below, and to both sides of the hand control. The Sperry Ball has the shafts near the gunners shoulders; I don't remember where the cranks were clipped (above his head?). Usually, the gunner had to take steps to disengage the dead powered drives before trying to crank anything. You can see some of that in the ball: the small, red, L-shaped lever above the gunner's right shoulder was probably how the powered azimuth was declutched. Except for the top turret, manual control was important just to get the gunner out of the thing since the doors/hatch had to be in a certain position before it could be used. There may have been some external features that would let another crewman help extricate a gunner. The "Aircrewman's Gunnery Manual" CD is an excellent source if you are interested. I think I got mine from Liberatorcrew.com. If you get it, you'll be able to see how badly I've misquoted it. Oh, there were also circuit breakers you could reset. Some also allowed switching off one gun to see if the other would work by itself.

[Buster_Dee]

Time to figure out how to post images.

Doh dee doh

[JtD]

You have an "Manage Attachments" button below the reply mask - use it and things will be easy.

[Buster_Dee]

Current state.

[JollySam]

Originally Posted by Buster_Dee

Well, backup as in manual control, but I don't know how effective it was. Look in most turrets, you'll often see two short, 4-sided shafts, with cranks clipped somewhere to work them. The A6A's cranks are at the top of the frame in front of the gunner (the red ones), and the shafts are on each side wall, sitcking out of some kind of gear box. In this turret, the left one is for elevation, the right one for azimuth. There would have been some kind of feature that let you, then, fire the guns with a foot control (since you're hands are tied up). The Martin had two cranks hanging down below, and to both sides of the hand control. The Sperry Ball has the shafts near the gunners shoulders; I don't remember where the cranks were clipped (above his head?). Usually, the gunner had to take steps to disengage the dead powered drives before trying to crank anything. You can see some of that in the ball: the small, red, L-shaped lever above the gunner's right shoulder was probably how the powered azimuth was declutched. Except for the top turret, manual control was important just to get the gunner out of the thing since the doors/hatch had to be in a certain position before it could be used. There may have been some external features that would let another crewman help extricate a gunner. The "Aircrewman's Gunnery Manual" CD is an excellent source if you are interested. I think I got mine from Liberatorcrew.com. If you get it, you'll be able to see how badly I've misquoted it. Oh, there were also circuit breakers you could reset. Some also allowed switching off one gun to see if the other would work by itself.

Yes, I see. Thanks. I thought there must be some kind of manual control. It mustn't have been much fun being trapped in one of those ball turrets though, especially when you might need to bail out at some point.

Thanks for the screens, they look pretty much ready for action already!

[Sita]

Great Work Guys!!!

[Luno13]

Awesome!!!!

Can't wait!