Analysis of real life 109E performance for CloD

[IvanK]

Some more grist for the mill

The source is AVIA 6/9352 RAE Performance tests on the bF110 and BF109E
In the UK National Archives

I personally do not think that any plane should be modelled after some specifications. However seeing the dispersion of the test results one wonders why the 109 can only do 450 kph (pre-patch) at sea level and from what I read will do only 467 kph with the new patch.

Seems completely arbitrary to set it to 467.

To my understanding IvanK's graph shows a 109 with Rolls Royce radiators (because the original ones were damaged during the forced landing of the 109?) and which is well below in altitude speed than the French test.

[fruitbat]

pffft, everyone knows the 109E climbed better than an Electric Lightning, turned better than an Albatross, and had super cruise.

[Ernst]

The criticism on the Me flight tests is valid. Then the same criticism should be applied on R.A.E tests of the spitfires and hurricanes too, right?

[von Brühl]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Stormcrow

I personally do not think that any plane should be modelled after some specifications. However seeing the dispersion of the test results one wonders why the 109 can only do 450 kph (pre-patch) at sea level and from what I read will do only 467 kph with the new patch.

Seems completely arbitrary to set it to 467.

To my understanding IvanK's graph shows a 109 with Rolls Royce radiators (because the original ones were damaged during the forced landing of the 109?) and which is well below in altitude speed than the French test.

Strange, I can only get 430kph level flight after the patch, anyone else confirm 467? I didn't see the 109s speed in the patch release notes, so thought it hadn't been fixed yet.

354mp/h also seems to agree with the Basic Flight Manual, Military Intellegence, Identification of German Aircraft published in 1942 by the War Department March 11, 1942 (page 16). It lists the 109Fs at 380mp/h.



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Even more reinforcement is the ranges, first I've seen comparative ranges in a time period specification. If it's top speed is truly 470kph, then 322mph in range would have to be diving, and it could hardly dive 540miles without starting in space!

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by IvanK

Some more grist for the mill

The source is AVIA 6/9352 RAE Performance tests on the bF110 and BF109E
In the UK National Archives

IMHO that graph illustrates how hopeless is it sometimes to come up with the 'correct' performance figures. All of these tests were performed with the same 109E-3, WNr 1304 by various establishments in varying power and aerodynamic conditions, and they all differ wildly.

[robtek]

I really dont understand this discussion, any 109 not meeting the guaranteed values from Messerschmitt was rejected by the Luftwaffe to be refurbished by Messerschmitt.

Each and every plane had a acception flight to prove it delivered the guaranteed values.

If there should be a deviation from the guaranteed values programmed in game, this deviation must be valid for ALL planes in this sim.

This just says that the 109 performance was quite certainly above the 500 kph minus 5% and would in no way exceed 500 kph plus 5%. But where should be the S/L speed be set for the 109 ingame?

The specification says NOTHING about average performance. The 500 kph is a fully theoretical value and was never meant to reflect real average performance.

I also highly doubt that the average 109 reached 500 kph and all tests indicate that it did not reach this value.

My guess is that the average speed at s/l was somewhere between 475 and 485 kph considering the flight tests.

If the average flight speed was 500 kph one should find flight tests showing individual 109s with speeds ABOVE 500 kph. I have never seen anything like that.

[robtek]

I've seen such a acceptance diagram from Meserschmitt 109's, but i don't know which series it was, anyway the general deviation was about 10 km/h below the guaranteed value, iirc. A few were above, the majority slightly below and five had to be refurbished because they've failed.
Found it: http://www.kurfurst.org/Performance_...catter_web.jpg

Originally Posted by robtek

I've seen such a acceptance diagram from Meserschmitt 109's, but i don't know which series it was, anyway the general deviation was about 10 km/h below the guaranteed value, iirc. A few were above, the majority slightly below and five had to be refurbished because they've failed.
Found it: http://www.kurfurst.org/Performance_...catter_web.jpg

That's been a 109G if I remember well (and the speeds as far as I can read them confirm that it is not a 109E). I have some doubts if the 10 kph can be transposed to an earlier model. I am not sure if the scattering could be transposed to the 109E. It would be great to find a similar graph for the E version but all presented tests of the E indicate that the performance was below 500 kph.