Outperformed by AI every single time

[addman]

Originally Posted by adonys

then stop babling nonse. IL2CoD's AI is NOT more complicate than the AI of Skyrim. Actually, it's even simpler. And that without even counting the AI manager, and the number of actors from a free world like Skyrim, which are very complex respectively huge, and the ones from IL2CoD.

I'm sorry adonys but why are you bringing up Skyrim again? Complex NPC AI? In Skyrim the AI is either just walking around or standing around script-spurting out the same old lines over and over and over and over again. When they are not doing that they randomly spawn in outside areas and sometimes attack you or sometimes attack each other, totally random. There is no depth to the Skyrim AI, they are just scripted to do a few basic things.

For example, do you ever see NPC characters gathering together, talking about going on a quest or do you ever see them smithing a sword or armor? No you don't because they have no deeper purpose. Skyrim does not have advanced AI, it only has good scripting which is good for a game like that. They are just empty shells walking around with a tape recorder stuck on replay inside of their mouths. If all those NPC's in Skyrim would've had really advanced AI, I'm talking about sense of self purpose stuff here, then the game would run at 1 FPS...on a very powerful PC.

The characters in Skyrim are basically made from a simple template, there is no advanced flight modeling to take in account, very basic hit detection. Not at all comparable to a simulated aircraft.

[skouras]

if you want cool AI
just fly BOB wings of victory 2
they use real tactics
i'm thinking to reinstall it again

[palker4]

Originally Posted by addman

I'm sorry adonys but why are you bringing up Skyrim again? Complex NPC AI? In Skyrim the AI is either just walking around or standing around script-spurting out the same old lines over and over and over and over again. When they are not doing that they randomly spawn in outside areas and sometimes attack you or sometimes attack each other, totally random. There is no depth to the Skyrim AI, they are just scripted to do a few basic things.

For example, do you ever see NPC characters gathering together, talking about going on a quest or do you ever see them smithing a sword or armor? No you don't because they have no deeper purpose. Skyrim does not have advanced AI, it only has good scripting which is good for a game like that. They are just empty shells walking around with a tape recorder stuck on replay inside of their mouths. If all those NPC's in Skyrim would've had really advanced AI, I'm talking about sense of self purpose stuff here, then the game would run at 1 FPS...on a very powerful PC.

The characters in Skyrim are basically made from a simple template, there is no advanced flight modeling to take in account, very basic hit detection. Not at all comparable to a simulated aircraft.

Clearly you have not played STALKER. One of the greatest things about that game is that everybody is doing something even the animals have routines to search for food and hunt and whatever animals do. AI in Call of Pripyat is incredible and believable outside combat or during does not matter. And all that runs very well on my PC.

[addman]

Originally Posted by palker4

Clearly you have not played STALKER. One of the greatest things about that game is that everybody is doing something even the animals have routines to search for food and hunt and whatever animals do. AI in Call of Pripyat is incredible and believable outside combat or during does not matter. And all that runs very well on my PC.

No I haven't and I was not talking about it either. Are the animals digestion system simulated? Like that of a fuel system. Does the animals take shelter from the cold or bad weather? Like an engine requiring cooling/heating? No, because they are only using simple scripts with a few basic AI routines. Also, isn't Stalker notorious for having poor frame-rates? They use the game for benchmarking CPU's and graphics cards still I think.

I'm not defending CoD here I'm just saying that a lot of "modern" games use tricks to seem more complex than they really are. A lot of developers burn all their resources on high fidelity graphics, sound and good gameplay mechanics these days. AI programming has taken the back seat for quite a while even though we have more capable hardware then ever before. AI programming is complicated and takes resources. In a game where you shoot down droves of enemies you don't need super advanced AI, just something that shoots at you and jumps to cover now and then. It's a shame but people buy the games anyway so, you get what you deserve, PONG level AI.

[GraveyardJimmy]

Originally Posted by addman

No, because they are only using simple scripts with a few basic AI routines.

Yes, it is different situations really. The movement around the map is done by scripts and routines to give the semblence of "life" on the map. To compare it with CloD you would have to only look at the part where they interact with the player (as the movement around the map without player input in CloD is one by waypoints and scripts/triggers and is manually done).

Therefore what does the AI of STALKER or Skyrim have to take into account? Position of the player and their position, perhaps in Stalker there is the use of cover and ammunition- I dont recall if they can run out of weapon ammo etc.

In CloD there are far more variables- multiple enemies, engine situation etc once the enemy has "seen" the player and decided to enter or flee combat. Therefore a simplified routine is used. It needs developing but it is not a system that is less complex than the AI of FPS shooters, especially when you consider the other systems being modelled concurrently- engine states, flight models, damage models etc which aren't present in games like Skyrim.

[adonys]

Guys, you are NOT programmers, and you DO NOT have any idea how or even what AI programming really is.

You are keep talking about internal systems, but that has NOTHING to do with the AI system. they are two different things. AI system can use input from the internal systems of a plane, but that's it.

Do you have any idea how many states, or parameters has a human NPC agent from Skyrim?!! Obviously you don't!

STOP embarrassing yourselves, and listen to what someone who knows this stuff is saying about.

IL2CLOD's AI IT IS NOT MORE COMPLICATED THAN MOST OF THE AI's OF OTHER GAMES! PERIOD!

PS:

Originally Posted by GraveyardJimmy

Yes, it is different situations really. The movement around the map is done by scripts and routines to give the semblence of "life" on the map. To compare it with CloD you would have to only look at the part where they interact with the player (as the movement around the map without player input in CloD is one by waypoints and scripts/triggers and is manually done).

Therefore what does the AI of STALKER or Skyrim have to take into account? Position of the player and their position, perhaps in Stalker there is the use of cover and ammunition- I dont recall if they can run out of weapon ammo etc.

In CloD there are far more variables- multiple enemies, engine situation etc once the enemy has "seen" the player and decided to enter or flee combat. Therefore a simplified routine is used. It needs developing but it is not a system that is less complex than the AI of FPS shooters, especially when you consider the other systems being modelled concurrently- engine states, flight models, damage models etc which aren't present in games like Skyrim.

ANY decent game has AI agents having multiple states, tens of parameters, account multiple enemies, know and use the terrain (Il2CoD doesn't), know and use dynamic collision objects (a thing which actually IL2COD is not doing, as they don't care about the clouds), has to decide when to switch from a finite machine state to another, has to account ammunition, work in team, know the state of a mount/pet/companion (IL2CoD's pilot/plane relation), etc, etc.

[palker4]

First STALKER Shadow of Chernobyl was a lot like CloD when it was released back in 2007. Developed by Ukrainian studio it was delayed several times. It was an incredibly ambitious project and management had to force developer to cut plenty of content only to get the game into releaseable state. On release Stalker was plagued by bugs and poor framerates but after several patches and with community made mods it is easily one of the best games i have ever played. I do not know how things will turn up with CloD but i hope it will become the best flight sim ever.
On topic now from wikipedia

The X-ray engine uses GSC Game World's proprietary ALife artificial intelligence engine. ALife supports more than one thousand characters inhabiting the Zone. These characters are non-scripted, meaning that AI life can be developed even when not in contact with the player.

So no scripts my friend STALKER AI is an achievement and also probably one of the things that delayed development.
I believe that Maddox Games had the same problem as STALKER devs. They set way to ambitious goals and they could not do it everything. Resulting in publisher pressuring them to release unfinished game in hope to get back their investment.