A newbies impression of the 109 and spit

[Crumpp]

[QUOTE If you look at almost any aircraft in the RAF at almost any time you will see that it says intentional spinning is banned. That includes the Spitfire, however it doesn't stop the fact that spinning is undertaken.
Pilots had to be trained to get out of a spin in a combat aircraft, and therefore you have to be in a spin to learn how the aircraft behaves. In reality it means that it should be done under supervision not as a matter of course until experience has been gained
][/QUOTE]

Don't confuse accidentally spinning with intentional spinning.

Corkscrewing is not spinning.

Re the comment someone made about arguing with non engineers, I served in the RN as an airframes and engines artificer in the early 70's if that is of interest.

He is not refering to "engineers" who would be called "Repairman" or "Airframe and Powerplant" qualified. He is referring to the ones all the Historians, Political Science Majors, and Lawyers started out as but could not do the math.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

[QUOTE If you look at almost any aircraft in the RAF at almost any time you will see that it says intentional spinning is banned. That includes the Spitfire, however it doesn't stop the fact that spinning is undertaken.
Pilots had to be trained to get out of a spin in a combat aircraft, and therefore you have to be in a spin to learn how the aircraft behaves. In reality it means that it should be done under supervision not as a matter of course until experience has been gained
]

Don't confuse accidentally spinning with intentional spinning.

Corkscrewing is not spinning. [/QUOTE]

Crumpp I was the one in the aircraft and can promise you that they were intentional spins. You don't train in an accidental spin.

I don't understand why you find difficult to grasp that pilots have to be trained to get out of a spin in a plane they fly in combat. To do that training you need to go into a spin and be default its an intentional spin.
You need this training in case you find yourself in an unintentional or accidental spin.

PS I know a corkscrew isn't a spin and I know its more violent than a spin.

In Gliders it isn't uncommon to spin if you want to lose height quickly, as they are very slippery and you can easily exceed the VNE in a dive.

[winny]

All very interesting.. But, what has a MkV Spitfire got to do with MkI/II?

And more importantly what has any of this got to do with CloD?
(I'm not being sarcastic here)

Is this level of detail contained in CloD? If we're dealing with stick forces?
Last time I checked Spitfires didn't come equipped with a Microsoft standard keyboard. I checked, it's not in the pilots notes...

Edit: I can if you wish find you some examples where BoB pilot's exceeded recommended limits etc.. Including intentional spins, proper ones. They did this mainly because someone was trying to kill them at the time.

[Crumpp]

All very interesting.. But, what has a MkV Spitfire got to do with MkI/II?

Until it was addressed with bob-weights, it existed in all early mark Spitfires.

Read the Operating Notes....

[Crumpp]

Crumpp I was the one in the aircraft and can promise you that they were intentional spins. You don't train in an accidental spin.

I would have to call you on this and ask for proof the aircaft were placarded. I have done plenty of spin training and it is always performed in an aircraft approved for spining.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I would have to call you on this and ask for proof the aircaft were placarded. I have done plenty of spin training and it is always performed in an aircraft approved for spining.

Check the pilots notes.

[winny]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Until it was addressed with bob-weights, it existed in all early mark Spitfires.

Read the Operating Notes....

Ok, what has it got to do with CloD?

[Crumpp]

I don't understand why you find difficult to grasp that pilots have to be trained to get out of a spin in a plane they fly in combat.

Glider,

They were trained but they did not spin Spitfires intentionally. The RAF Training Manual clearly states you will not intentionally spin an aircraft that is placarded against spinning.

The FAA, in following convention estabilished by British law says:

Spin training must be accomplished in an aircraft that is approved for spins. Before practicing intentional spins, the AFM or POH should be consulted for the proper entry and recovery techniques.

The pilot of an airplane placarded against intentional spins should assume that the airplane may become uncontrollable in a spin.

http://nobleairventures.com/StallandSpinAwareness.pdf

[Gabelschwanz Teufel]

Jesus wept...

[winny]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Glider,

They were trained but they did not spin Spitfires intentionally. The RAF Training Manual clearly states you will not intentionally spin an aircraft that is placarded against spinning.

The FAA, in following convention estabilished by British law says:





http://nobleairventures.com/StallandSpinAwareness.pdf

Weren't the FAA set up in 1958?