A newbies impression of the 109 and spit

[WTE_Galway]

Quote from page 46 of a book by Morgan & Shacklady taken from this discussion:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=75816


The Air Ministry was not completely satisfied with the spin recovery of the Spitfire, and at a meeting on 17 January 1938, chaired by Air Cdr. Verney, Supermarine persuaded those in attendance that no modifications be made to production aircraft apart from the addition of an anti-spin parachute. For the Air Ministry Verney said that based upon model tests at Farnborough production aircraft could not be passed for spinning even with a tail parachute. Supermarine then pointed out that Jeffrey Quill had made sixteen successful spins of eight turns in the prototype. After more discussion the DTD agreed to accept the Supermarine proposal and that the first 20 production models should be fitted with the tail parachute and undergo further spinning trials. He, DTD, would be satisfied with recovery at 15,000 ft. When the first production Mk 1 Spitfire, K9787, was completed at the beginning of May 1938 an anti-spin parachute was duly fitted and the aircraft made its first flight from Eastleigh, piloted by Quill, on 14th of the same month .

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Quote from page 46 of a book by Morgan & Shacklady taken from this discussion:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=75816


The Air Ministry was not completely satisfied with the spin recovery of the Spitfire, and at a meeting on 17 January 1938, chaired by Air Cdr. Verney, Supermarine persuaded those in attendance that no modifications be made to production aircraft apart from the addition of an anti-spin parachute. For the Air Ministry Verney said that based upon model tests at Farnborough production aircraft could not be passed for spinning even with a tail parachute. Supermarine then pointed out that Jeffrey Quill had made sixteen successful spins of eight turns in the prototype. After more discussion the DTD agreed to accept the Supermarine proposal and that the first 20 production models should be fitted with the tail parachute and undergo further spinning trials. He, DTD, would be satisfied with recovery at 15,000 ft. When the first production Mk 1 Spitfire, K9787, was completed at the beginning of May 1938 an anti-spin parachute was duly fitted and the aircraft made its first flight from Eastleigh, piloted by Quill, on 14th of the same month .

Its interesting to note that the Bf 109 won the fighter tender against its Heinkel rival due to the excellent spinning and stability characteristics much desired by the Imperial Air Ministry. Green notes, that the Commission ultimately ruled in favour of the Bf 109 because of the Messerschmitt test pilot's demonstration of the 109's capabilities during a series of spins, dives, flick rolls and tight turns, throughout which the pilot was in complete control of the aircraft.

[bolox]

while not strictly related to the spit/109 debate, the fitting of elevator bob weights wasn't unique

http://p51h.home.comcast.net/~p51h/sig/TO/01-60-90.pdf

[Crumpp]

while not strictly related to the spit/109 debate, the fitting of elevator bob weights wasn't unique

Stability and Control issues were not unique in WWII era aircraft. The science was very young and there were no standards in place. Most if not all of them had some sort of issue.

It is the area WWII fighters show the most variation in performance and is just as important to their fighting abilities as the aerodynamics.

Germany was the only combatant to have standards when the war started. The United States had standards by the time it entered the war as well. Everyone else did not adopt any defined standards until after the war.