Speed graphs for Spitfire and Hurricane

[Osprey]

"Only that good pilots make good fights now and not just the plane."

That is all well and good to an extent. The boys in our JG26 LW arm are now saying that things are way too easy and no longer a challenge because the109 has lost it's stall characteristics. He is now able to out-turn Spitfires easily, no longer needs to be careful about approach because if he gets involved he can escape anyway.

I did a quick test on the Hurricane Rotol and Couldn't get more than 230mph ASi out of it, trimmed, level flight, at various RPm (best 2650). According to this:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...rricane-I.html

I should get 261mph with the Rotol which is 290mph TAS. Essentially the Hurricane is 50-60mph too slow. When I looked at the graphs B6 provided too the 109 is faster than RL up to 6km too, so we have an inaccuracy of around 80mph!!

[Osprey]

Also, I've found problems in climb. Maybe it's me but the Spitfire Ia ROC seems to fall off badly above 16kft. I can only seem to manage about 1000fpm constantly when I should be able to manage 2400fpm @ 15kft and 1,840fpm @ 20kft.
I may have a bad airspeed or RPM for the task but I was using 2600rpm and full power rad open trying to maintain 160mph ASI. Temperatures looked dangerously high, I found 140-150 seemed to give better climb.

This is too inaccurate as a test, I would like some opinion on it though.

[Winger]

Originally Posted by Osprey

"Only that good pilots make good fights now and not just the plane."

That is all well and good to an extent. The boys in our JG26 LW arm are now saying that things are way too easy and no longer a challenge because the109 has lost it's stall characteristics. He is now able to out-turn Spitfires easily, no longer needs to be careful about approach because if he gets involved he can escape anyway.

I did a quick test on the Hurricane Rotol and Couldn't get more than 230mph ASi out of it, trimmed, level flight, at various RPm (best 2650). According to this:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...rricane-I.html

I should get 261mph with the Rotol which is 290mph TAS. Essentially the Hurricane is 50-60mph too slow. When I looked at the graphs B6 provided too the 109 is faster than RL up to 6km too, so we have an inaccuracy of around 80mph!!

I fought a Spit yesterday and dove away. The guy followed me and i wasnt able to get distance on him. He seemingly then lost sight of me and broke off. Wich was my luck. I think people should Fly the crates for a while untily they know the strengths and weaknesses and then after maybe 1-2 weeks start complaining. But not already at day 1.

Winger

EDIT: But i surely understand red jockeys if the get upset fast. I would too. Did so already. Until i then realized it was me and the situation and not the plane

[Insuber]

I attacked Wellingtons at 3.5 km height on ATAG on my 109-E1, and suddenly found 3 or 4 Spits and Hurries buzzing around. After a bit of DF I dove for life, but at least one if not 2 Spits managed to stay on my tail down to < 1 km.
They should have hit some controls because trying to shake them again I went into an unrecoverable spin and crashed into the channel.

That's not to deny the FM mistakes of red fighters, which MUST be corrected asap by the devs, but to hint that the Bf-109 is not that invicible machine.

Cheers!

[Osprey]

I haven't managed to find a fight yet since the patch, I get up to 18kft where the Spitfire is meant to be stronger but nobody is ever there. It sucks.

I am going by what our JG26 boys have said, DavidRed has had a couple of 'Ace in a Sortie' flights already - that's just turkey shooting. Maybe some are turkeys but they aren't all turkeys. Like I say, I don't know personally so will have to experience it. I fly the Hurricane and it is 60mph slower than it should be (30mph @ 6.25lbs), which is massive for the slowest fighter anyway. I did a quick turn test with one of our 109 guys and he could stay with me easily in sustained 180mph turn - I should have been able to tail him in 2 circuits like that (though I appreciate that's not how to fly a 109!)

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by Osprey

I did a quick test on the Hurricane Rotol and Couldn't get more than 230mph ASi out of it, trimmed, level flight, at various RPm (best 2650). According to this:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...rricane-I.html

I should get 261mph with the Rotol which is 290mph TAS. Essentially the Hurricane is 50-60mph too slow. When I looked at the graphs B6 provided too the 109 is faster than RL up to 6km too, so we have an inaccuracy of around 80mph!!

Your link don't work.

The RL tests measure the 109's 1.32 ata power. It's the "no WEP" line. This graph is slower 35 km/h (on the deck) than it should.


- pilot's manual
- game with WEP
- game no WEP

I can't follow you calculations, how do you get 80 mph difference...?

[Osprey]

Updated it.

OK, so you cannot apply wep? What happens then? (I understand the wep limit should be 1 minute correct?)

Speed is just one part of the puzzle anyway, ROC, turn stall etc etc....... We need some sort of IL2COD_Compare

[Kwiatek]

Looking for 109 speed graph for patch i think speed is quite accurate modeled - max speed 500 km/h at the deck and 580? km/h at FTH, without 'WEP?" it looks like about 460-470 km/h which is accurate for RL serial test 109 with 1.3 Ata power ( 5-minutes WEP power).

But looking at patch speed graph for british fighters there is really big joke for me.
Hurricane MK1 with CSP at 6 1.2 lbs power should reach ab. 260 mph ( 420 kph) at the deck and some raported after patch it could reach only 230 mph (370 kph)???? WTF???
50 km/h difference? And these is without 100 octan fuel performance.


Strange that 1C FM engeneer could achived very accurate results for 109 E in game ( beta patch) but srew a lot with british fighters performacne ?!

[Bokononist]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

Looking for 109 speed graph for patch i think speed is quite accurate modeled - max speed 500 km/h at the deck and 580? km/h at FTH, without 'WEP?" it looks like about 460-470 km/h which is accurate for RL serial test 109 with 1.3 Ata power ( 5-minutes WEP power).

But looking at patch speed graph for british fighters there is really big joke for me.
Hurricane MK1 with CSP at 6 1.2 lbs power should reach ab. 260 mph ( 420 kph) at the deck and some raported after patch it could reach only 230 mph (370 kph)???? WTF???
50 km/h difference? And these is without 100 octan fuel performance.


Strange that 1C FM engeneer could achived very accurate results for 109 E in game ( beta patch) but srew a lot with british fighters performacne ?!

I've only just flown the Hurricane and the SPIT IIa briefly today, well frankly on first impressions its not much fun. I wouldn't be confident taking either into a dogfight against a 109.
Flying the Spit didn't feel like a plane that struck fear into the Lufwaffe.
Is there some kind of agenda from 1C? I can't imagine what it is, but it seems that for flight sim enthusiasts they have no love for two of the most famous planes in history. Ho Hum.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by Osprey

Updated it.

OK, so you cannot apply wep? What happens then? (I understand the wep limit should be 1 minute correct?)

Speed is just one part of the puzzle anyway, ROC, turn stall etc etc....... We need some sort of IL2COD_Compare

If the Hurri slower 30 mph, and the 109 slower 10-20 mph, then the difference is 20-10 mph... not 60.

The WEP have limits, we didn't testing with the new engine, but we notice, the cooling leak causes engine failure. It should testing the other systems before I say anything.

We notice a huge difference the old and the new FM. Have to learn to fly with all planes.The stall characterics changed drastically (the 109's too). Far worse agile, and far less stability on slow speed (and i like it. I just flew gliders, but the high AoA flight, the stall, spin and the wing flaps looks more real now). The spin is stronger, and hard to recover. No more tight turn with open flap (you dorp your speed quickly, and fall like a rock - particularly the Spit/Hurri's Split-Flap).