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  #1  
Old 04-27-2012, 02:27 PM
irR4tiOn4L irR4tiOn4L is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
now you're just being plain rude (I'll bet you vote Labor too )
Well you were being an ass, weren't you? You know dots get smaller with lower fovs but you still insist on saying it. I'm not talking about your intellectual capacity (though I have my doubts given you still don't get it after 10 pages) and political choices, they are your own concern - I am simply describing how you are choosing to behave (like an ass).

Btw, I don't vote Labour. Stereotypes ey!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
FoV is associated with magnification... it is not, however the same thing

Look down a tube with one eye, what happens?
You do realise your Field of View does not change when you look down a tube with one eye right? Most of it is simply filled by the tube

It's important to seperate what you see with what is happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
with regard to the limits of current monitor technology and keeping in with the realism
Lol what you think they are magic? They are just a bunch of pixels that don't even account for FOV! They don't magically give you the most realistic spotting experience you can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
because of the limitions of computer gaming/ monitors... notice how pupil exit size isn't taken into account
Garbage. FOV is a rendering property and has nothing to do with the limitations of computer gaming and monitors. The CHOICE of FOV does - but not FOV itself.

If everybody suddenly had wraparound monitors, games could suddenly use much wider fovs. But they would still need to use FOV to zoom in.

Remember also that FOV doesnt have to be all or nothing. Modern games can have a general view with one fov and a display within that (like say a sniper scope) that actually renders part of the scene at a different FOV. But FOV is what is being used, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
go wider with FPS and narrower with combat flight sims... if its sounds like and walks like, a duck ~
In case we ever doubted you are a grating, unpleasant personality that looks for people to blame, you make it clear once more. You must have a very bitter life.

Are you not doing well online? Feel the need to blame the game's sanctioning for fov changes? Well thats too bad. 1C officially sanctions it so its not a cheat. It also happens to make dots harder to spot although it is very useful in other ways, and widely used.

Anyway, I thought you were against whining? What makes you different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
not according to what you said here
You're a bit slow aren't you

Let me repeat once more. In practice and my testing, the dots are actually harder to spot in 30 fov. Try it. You'll see

Quote:
Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L View Post
Having just done a bit more flying and switching between 70 and 30 fov, it is actually EASIER to spot dots in 70 fov, in some cases, than 30.

So the concerns of wolf and ilk are completely misplaced. Zoomed fov can actually make spotting aircraft more difficult, although double checking on the nature of a dot/contact is much easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post

by physically moving closer to the monitor, the dots are getting bigger?
Of course!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
Slightly bigger yes, but in reality all that is achieved is a clearer definition and perhaps eye damage.
No, MUCH bigger! At least 4 times larger. That is also what 'clearer definition' means - each pixel on the monitor is much larger, and occupies more space on your retina, so it is much easier to tell them apart (and the details they represent).

I agree on the eye damage though. Never said it was practical - just possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
and "let alone using a larger monitor"? well that is part of your problem right there (which was taken care of by the developers regarding using real big monitors as a cheat; as in an unfair advantage online)
Aren't you using a 22" CRT also?

A larger monitor can, in the strictest sense of the word, be an unfair advantage. If there were an IL2 professional tournament (in like a tournament hall or something), things like this would need be standardised.

But I am not against people using larger monitors of course! A larger monitor is nicer to look at and covers more of your field of view (while still sitting a decent distance from it) which is ultimately more realistic and comfortable.

As for the developers addressing this. I don't know what you are talking about - but I reckon the developers should have no business telling people what monitors to use online. If I had a wraparound, 360 degree view monitor handy, i'd want Cliffs of Dover to support it no matter what certain online knobs thought about it.

Last edited by irR4tiOn4L; 04-27-2012 at 02:37 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-27-2012, 02:46 PM
Wolf_Rider Wolf_Rider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L View Post

As for the developers addressing this. I don't know what you are talking about - but I reckon the developers should have no business telling people what monitors to use online. If I had a wraparound, 360 degree view monitor handy, i'd want Cliffs of Dover to support it no matter what certain online knobs thought about it.


Quote:
5. The resolution of detials and LODs is way higher than in lL-2. How far we we will see the type of the object... I can't say right now. All will depends of the all final resource-eaters....
In Il-2 once we did halfransparent dot for the groun objects that to make some ability to see it from longer distance... howver users dislike this system and preffered to go back as it was.
It isn't definitiopn of the LOD only. It is definition of the screen resolution, and power of a system on which we will run BoB in fuuture in a middle settings.
Also due to online gamplay we will need to make it absolutely identical to medium system for the fair gameplay. Its a rule... Or the player with more power PC and greate resolution of the monitor you would be named as a cheater.... We already have great experience in that and many items of gameplay when we need to go for some middle level of details on middle to high power game machines...

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=6909
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  #3  
Old 04-27-2012, 02:59 PM
irR4tiOn4L irR4tiOn4L is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
Clearly you just don't understand any of this topic. I expect you are intellectually challenged. Still, I'll post a clarification;

Quote:
5. The resolution of detials and LODs is way higher than in lL-2. How far we we will see the type of the object... I can't say right now. All will depends of the all final resource-eaters....
He is talking about rendering distances for LODs and objects. Mostly ground objects, as aircraft are already rendered very far out or as dots.

Quote:
In Il-2 once we did halfransparent dot for the groun objects that to make some ability to see it from longer distance... howver users dislike this system and preffered to go back as it was.
Again, talking about ground objects. Aircraft already have the system in place.

Quote:
It isn't definitiopn of the LOD only. It is definition of the screen resolution, and power of a system on which we will run BoB in fuuture in a middle settings.
The decision on how far to render ground objects also depends on performance and FPS hit on middle range systems and how far these objects can be seen comes down to factors other than LOD (including screen resolution).

Quote:
Also due to online gamplay we will need to make it absolutely identical to medium system for the fair gameplay.
Given the last point, you can't have a LOD system that is switched off on medium systems and does not render objects at long distance, but does on high end systems because of fair gameplay. This is about FPS and performance hits, not spotting and dots.

Quote:
Its a rule... Or the player with more power PC and greate resolution of the monitor you would be named as a cheater....
Justifying the position above, medium system players should be able to have access to the same LOD rendering system for ground objects as power users and any ground object dot system should scale across resolutions to ensure fair gameplay and to prevent the community turning on players using powerful pc's. This is all meant to justify why the developers are taking their time developing a lod system for ground objects.

Quote:
We already have great experience in that and many items of gameplay when we need to go for some middle level of details on middle to high power game machines...
They like the way dots and other aspects of the graphics and gameplay systems are consistent across low spec and high spec PC's and intend to continue to develop in this way.

Note that they do not say anything about large monitors or aircraft dots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
wot?? and no three minute warning? spin it around all you want....
How old are you?

Last edited by irR4tiOn4L; 04-27-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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  #4  
Old 04-27-2012, 03:28 PM
Wolf_Rider Wolf_Rider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L View Post

Note that they do not say anything about large monitors or aircraft dots.
keep up the denigrations, son...
and according to you, I would be 7. what's your next one, perhaps something about special needs?


Quote:
5) will you correct and improve the "distant object visibility" problem we currently have in il2 ? ie seeing distant LoD models correctly as you would see the the same object (plane/truck/tank) from the same distance with the naked eye in real life
- this is not a problem in il2 when you look at a distant aircraft against the open sky because it is a black (or dark grey) object that is seen against a uniform light blue sky background, but there is a MAJOR problem looking for a small LoD model against the textures of the terrain background, it blends in to much.
- for ex right now in il2 when you fly your aircraft at 1500 meters altitude and you look down to scan the ground for objects, you can not see/locate/track an enemy truck or tank that is standing in an open field or is located on an open road (as you can in real life see it, and historical ww2 pilot reports available), but instead in il2 you need to fly at 500 meters altitude to be able to see it (using the 30 FoV zoom function is not the solution, because it creates tunnel vision and you can only scan a very small narrow part of the ground at a time, and loosing all your peripheral vision it makes you very vulnerable to fly like that). this is because the il2 LoD model blends in to much with the terrain textures (with pc grafix it is a flat 2 dimensional LoD model blending in with the colors of the flat 2 dimensional terrain textures, but in real life it is a 3 dimensional solid object that stands out much more)
- will you compensate for this pc grafix problem in BoB and make distant LoD models stand out more so they are correctly visible ? you mentioned we will have more LoD models in BoB, instead of the 3 currently used in il2, but i am asking about making the LoD model stand out more so it is correctly visible and we can see those objects like tank/truck/planes from the exact same distance as we can see them in real life !
was the question to which O.M. responded... "greater resolution" is in reference to larger monitors (you needed to be there at the time








Quote:
Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L View Post

Remember also that FOV doesnt have to be all or nothing. Modern games can have a general view with one fov and a display within that (like say a sniper scope) ~

Which I suggested before, along with a penalty for in cockpit binocular use. Penalty being one hand off the stick or off the throttle (adding an exit pupil penalty as well) coded in.
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Last edited by Wolf_Rider; 04-27-2012 at 03:37 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-27-2012, 03:55 PM
irR4tiOn4L irR4tiOn4L is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
Which I suggested before, along with a penalty for in cockpit binocular use. Penalty being one hand off the stick or off the throttle (adding an exit pupil penalty as well) coded in.
Tell you what. Since this is plainly all you want, why don't you go start a thread about it, have your idea rejected on its own merit, and leave what is here to be considered on its? You're clearly not interested in anything I have to say and, well, given that I have already heard the breadth of your input, I would have to say the feeling is mutual.

I'm not sure why I continued the discussion. Perhaps I thought you might be interested, against the odds, in learning something about FOV and its uses. I was clearly wrong. So considering that your only aim is to raise hell about the inequity of fov switching and the perfection to be attained in the 60 fov + binoculars, I can't help you. Why don't you go look for a broader audience?

Sincerely,

Bored and disinterested
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  #6  
Old 04-27-2012, 04:36 PM
Wolf_Rider Wolf_Rider is offline
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leaving again??

that's three dollars I've lost already and now it is looking like a fourth...


well you want "realism" and "what the pilot really sees", so those penalties for incockpit binoculars (zoom) would be perfect.

Oh, hang on... you'd only want "realism" and "what the pilot really sees" up to a point, eh

and you're still stuck on the photography aspect, when in reality, you could have learnt something from projection, which is the image on the screen.
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Last edited by Wolf_Rider; 04-27-2012 at 04:41 PM.
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  #7  
Old 04-27-2012, 05:12 PM
irR4tiOn4L irR4tiOn4L is offline
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Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
leaving again??

that's three dollars I've lost already and now it is looking like a fourth...


well you want "realism" and "what the pilot really sees", so those penalties for incockpit binoculars (zoom) would be perfect.

Oh, hang on... you'd only want "realism" and "what the pilot really sees" up to a point, eh

and you're still stuck on the photography aspect, when in reality, you could have learnt something from projection, which is the image on the screen.
Well it seems to me that you are the one who wants something and are upset that its regarded as something silly that nobody else wants. So you come here and waste my time, and almost certainly waste your time.

Why bother? Just accept that you wont get a riser or support out of me or anyone else. Least of all the devs. Get over it and move on. Or get banned, I don't care.
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